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M4(105) composite, M114 & M60A0 in Detroit...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:20 am
Post subject: M4(105) composite, M114 & M60A0 in Detroit...

I was in Detroit on Thursday and tried to track down some local armor. Unfortunately, I wasnt able to get into TACOM as I had hoped - needed more advance notice, but hopefully I can set something up on a future trip...

One of my first stops was historic Fort Wayne... I discovered its not really "open," although they let me in through the gate just fine...

I took some pictures of the M114 - somewhat unusual to see the bow plane partially up...

I%20was%20able%20to%20take%20a%20couple%20of%20shots%20of%20the%20M4(105)%20composite%20hull%20Sherman,%20when%20security%20showed%20up%20&%20shooed%20me%20off-base...%20Apparently%20Fort%20Wayne%20isnt%20open%20to%20the%20public,%20and%20certainly%20not%20for%20photography,%20except%20on%20pre-arranged%20tours.%20Apparently%20they%20thought%20I%20was%20some%20sort%20of%20contractor%20at%20the%20gate,%20although%20I%20never%20presented%20myself%20as%20such...%20And%20there's%20no%20sign%20or%20anything%20at%20the%20gate%20to%20indicate%20its%20closed.%20Needless%20to%20say%20I%20wasnt%20very%20happy...%20 I%20was%20then%20able%20to%20confirm%20the%20M60A0%20at%20the%20Macomb%20County%20Vietnam%20Veterans%20Memorial%20at%20Freedom%20Hill%20County%20Park%20in%20Sterling%20Heights.%20 Its%20actually%20a%20very%20low%20SN:%2017,%20and%20I%20found%20the%20RN%209B3120%20on%20the%20lower%20left%20front%20hull...

The TACOM Central Registry identified M60 SN 17 at Mount Clemens MI, so I'll remove that listing from the register...

On a related note, the M48 Shawn previously identified at the Detroit Light Guards Armory in Detroit just a couple of years ago has since been moved to Fort Custer in Augusta, MI.

Additionally, I did not find an M60 at the VFW in Utica MI, and no one there knew anything about a local M60 except for the one at Freedom Hill Park. Similarly, I called ahead to the Roseville VFW to see if they had an M3 Stuart like the TACOM Register said and they said they didnt...

Neil
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:55 pm
Post subject: Re: M4(105) composite, M114 & M60A0 in Detroit...

The Sherman is technically the M4 w/105mm howitzer pilot, lest anyone think that there were composite hulled 105s made in normal production.

KL
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the_shadock
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Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:58 pm
Post subject: Re: M4(105) composite, M114 & M60A0 in Detroit...

why do "they" produced composite hulls?

P-O

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Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
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MarkHolloway
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Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: M4(105) composite, M114 & M60A0 in Detroit...

I wonder what the bolts are for on the side of the M114?

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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: M4(105) composite, M114 & M60A0 in Detroit...

"Why did they produce composite hulls?"

The glacis of the M4 series was expensive to make and inherently weak due to the large number of weld joints. The cast front was an attempt by Detroit Tank Arsenal to remedy this. It was also desired to enlarge the driver's hatches, which was incorporated into the castings soon after the start of production. The large casting was yet another demand on the already strained foundries, however, so when Grand Blanc Tank Arsenal came up with the idea to use a single glacis plate tilted a few degrees forward it was adopted in lieu of the casting for the "Ultimate Sherman".

KL
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:15 am
Post subject: Re: M4(105) composite, M114 & M60A0 in Detroit...

Thanks Kurt for the explanation.

P-O

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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:14 pm
Post subject: Re: M4(105) composite, M114 & M60A0 in Detroit...

Neil,
Well, glad you were able to take a walk about in the area. Not sure what your time schedule was for your visit, but you should have given one of us locals a ring.

The Roseville Stuart hasnt been there in at least 40 years! I should take a look at the updated registry and see what is listed...

I dont recall an M60 even being in Utica, let alone were their VFW post is located.

Ft. Wayne is open, depending on whom you know to talk to.

Too bad you hadnt stopped by the Armada area and had a chance to check out the CEV prototype that is up there (as well as an M60A3 in that area). There had been a Sherman south of the D, near Toledo.

but time permitting, anyway... glad you were able to take a look around.
Shawn

oh, Neil, can you or anyone else on the DG confirm the Shermans that are located along the OH turnpike heading east?? I wanted to stop and see them next time I head over to PA but didnt want to waste time if they are no longer there, etc...
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:10 am
Post subject: Re: M4(105) composite, M114 & M60A0 in Detroit...

Sorry Shawn, I should have given a heads up, but I was only in town for a couple of days on business and only had Thursday afternoon to look around...

Both the Roseville Stuart & Utica M60 were info from TACOM's registry.

Well, the Fort Wayne security guard in the yellow truck was definately having none of it... I wasnt aware of it was closed in any sense, so I had no idea of a need to call ahead or anything...

I looked at Armada, but it was a bit too far north and it was getting dark by the time I stopped by Utica.

Sorry, unlike the Big 3 CEOs, I flew Wink Never saw the OH turnpike or PA, etc...

Neil
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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: M4(105) composite, M114 & M60A0 in Detroit...

No problem, that is understood. Uh? You have a private jet? The big 3 CEO's have private jets. That was one reason they got reamed! and took their hybrids to DC this last time...

which makes me think, pose a question to the DG...
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