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Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Blackjack
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:12 pm
Post subject: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

In one of the Osprey Elite books on the Warsaw Pact, it states that the East German NVA had a unit outfitted with M113s and an M47 or two to look like West German vehciles (smoke dischargers, etc) that were obtained from Vietnam. This unit was to wreck havoc if East and West were to ever come to blows, which thankfully they never did. They would have made things confusing for a while, anyhow...

I heard a rumor many moons ago that there was a Chieftan in Poland that was used for evaluation and training, obtained from Iran, but I haven't heard anything since. An M107 was a gift from Vietnam for aid given during the war, a war trophy that can be seen in Warsaw today, so not the same as the Chieftan.

The US holdings are pretty well known, coming from Egypt and Israel before the Wall came down. Supposedly, a few Scuds were aquired after the Wall came down and their crews in cooperation with the US Military demonstrated what operating procedures were as a number were fred off in Nevada and potential countermeasures developed.

The USSR got an M-60 with blazer armour from Syria which was reverse engineered and lessons passed on to their own armor. What others are there that may be known of? I think its odd after all this time that the Chieftan is still a tightly held secret, if it was ever in Polish hands at all. There have to be other unique vehicles out there in strange lands with unique stories behind them....
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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Blackjack
An M107 was a gift from Vietnam for aid given during the war, a war trophy that can be seen in Warsaw today, so not the same as the Chieftan.


It was still there in the summer of '07 at the Polish Army Museum.

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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

If you remove the option of captured and reused by the second owner, there are a lot fewer possibilities. Sales are an obvious source of unusual uses.

There are stories of an Italian Leopard I winding up in the USSR for observations.

How about some of the Israeli Shermans in Chile - third or fourthhand?
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:39 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

I'm not sure I'm convinced that the NVA were intending those vehicles for subterfuge, I would have thought more likely as OPFOR vehicles.

As JG300-Ascout says the M107 is in Warsaw, along with a Leopard - you can see them here in a private (unfinished) part of my site:

www.preservedtanks.com...0&Select=4

I'm also not convinced the USSR has an M60 with Blazer, my guess is it's been confused with their M60, and their M48 with Blazer. They can be seen in my public Kubinka section (click on Foreign Vehicles) - along with a Chieftain and some other interesting stuff:

www.preservedtanks.com...4&Max=2146

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:34 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

About 5 years ago a SCUD was tested at White Sands Missile Range.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:41 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

When I was stationed at Fort Irwin I heard of a similar OPFOR unit to ours run by the Soviet Army somewhere in the Ukraine.

They were supposedly outfitted with captured equipment, although the scale and instrumentation was no where near as in depth as what we were doing. Never heard any more since then.

Joe D
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Taranov
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:54 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

Correction:
M48A5 with Blazer armor, trophy on 1982 conflict, if we are talk about Kubinka tank. Chieftain Mk.5 and Scorpion - gift from Saddam, ex-iranian tanks.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:53 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

In the late 70's there was an operational 'Hind D' at Ft Bliss, for a brief period of time. It was kept 'under wraps' but was operational and used on occasion. I happened to see it a couple times as it flew around the desert.

I did hear it was 'on loan' from Ft Hunter-Ligget in California, but not sure of that 'rumor'.

Don
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:58 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

JRTC at Fort Polk has Mi-24 Hinds, used to pride themselves on having the best operational availability of any Hind unit in the world LOL... I was promised a ride (presumably in the cramped assault compartment) when I visited as a reporter some years ago, but we ended up on a Black Hawk instead Sad

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

This is at Fort Bliss. I talked to the US Army pilot and he said they were training foreign pilots.

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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:03 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- TrevorLarkum
As JG300-Ascout says the M107 is in Warsaw, along with a Leopard - you can see them here in a private (unfinished) part of my site:

www.preservedtanks.com...p;Select=4

I'm also not convinced the USSR has an M60 with Blazer, my guess is it's been confused with their M60, and their M48 with Blazer. They can be seen in my public Kubinka section (click on Foreign Vehicles) - along with a Chieftain and some other interesting stuff:

www.preservedtanks.com...p;Max=2146


Apologies to anyone who clicked on these and got a 'Service Unavailable' message, as I did earlier today. It's now fixed and these links are working again.

As Taranov said, the M48 with the Blazer is the M48A5, #124 (I should have been more specific as there's also an M48A3 in the collection, #123):

www.preservedtanks.com...;Select=15

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:29 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

Mark,

That is most likely an Afghan Pilot in there being trained. Met a bunch of them in 2006 at the CIF facility.

Joe D
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:41 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Joe_D
Mark,

That is most likely an Afghan Pilot in there being trained. Met a bunch of them in 2006 at the CIF facility.

Joe D


When I worked as a fuel man at White Sands they brought one of these out one day and I refueled it. It had the American crew but they were testing American-made machine gun mounts in it. I think that had the SAW and M240.

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tanker2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Neil_Baumgardner
JRTC at Fort Polk has Mi-24 Hinds, used to pride themselves on having the best operational availability of any Hind unit in the world


Yeah, if you listen to the far right wing wackos on shortwave radio or any of their crazy rags, that's proof we have Russian and U.N. bases in the U.S. ready to take over for the New World Order. One of the better laughs I got, was a pic of Canadian Cougars on rail cars going to NTC. They were still painted white, having just come back from Bosnia, according to the wackos this was more proof of N.W.O. forces comming into the U.S..
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