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Sd Kfz 223 confusion
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:46 am
Post subject: Sd Kfz 223 confusion

I'm confused. (Like thats a news flash to those who know me...)

I've been glancing thru images & documents on the German Armored Car series of the 221, 222, & 223.

I%20have%20found%20a%20point%20of%20confusion%20on%20what%20is%20in%20the%20collection%20here.%20%20Although%20this%20is%20perhaps%20easily%20explained,%20I%20was%20wondering%20if%20anyone%20might%20have%20an%20idea. Everything%20points%20to%20the%20Sd%20Kfz%20223%20being%20the%20basic%20same%20vehicle%20as%20the%20Sd%20Kfz%20221%20&%20222,%20%20Why%20does%20'our'%20vehicle%20only%20have%20a%20single%20vision%20port?%20%20I%20can't%20find%20anything%20showing%20a%20222%20or%20223%20having%20this%20same%20trait. %20

Is this due to differences in the location of construction (ie different companys)?

Or,....is this possibily a different variant? Shocked

In a state of confusion Mr. Green
Don
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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:41 am
Post subject: Re: Sd Kfz 223 confusion

Because it is an early SdKfz 260?

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Last edited by Garry_Redmon on Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:47 am
Post subject: Re: Sd Kfz 223 confusion

It's appears to be a production variant. Nuts & Bolts Vol. 4 Sd.Kfz 222 & 223 mention it as being a very late production feature. Panzerspahwagen mentions it as well but doesn't provide any production dates or photos.

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:47 am
Post subject: Re: Sd Kfz 223 confusion

- Garry_Redmon
Because it is a SdKfz 260?


I'm glad someone else is thinking the same way I am.....

Could this be the Sd Kfz 260 ?

Don
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:55 am
Post subject: Re: Sd Kfz 223 confusion

- toadmanstankpictures
It's appears to be a production variant. Nuts & Bolts Vol. 4 Sd.Kfz 222 & 223 mention it as being a very late production feature. Panzerspahwagen mentions it as well but doesn't provide any production dates or photos.


Thanks Chris, I'll have to dig those up.

With the conflict of identifying features, my main interest is some sort of definitive, 'source written' vehicle descriptive, or at least some period photos of similiar featured vehicles.

Don
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:00 am
Post subject: Re: Sd Kfz 223 confusion

- Dontos
- Garry_Redmon
Because it is a SdKfz 260?


I'm glad someone else is thinking the same way I am.....

Could this be the Sd Kfz 260 ?

Don

I don't believe so. The pics in the Nuts & Bolts book show the rollers for the turret. The SdKfz 260 didn't use a turret. Instead, it used a wire screen over the opening. Also, the 260/261 weren't produced with a mounted machine gun which means there would be no need for the special mg ammo racks that are inside the 223.

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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:01 am
Post subject: Re: Sd Kfz 223 confusion

I'm not sure. There doesn't seem to be any remnants of attachment points for the metal cage on top so perhaps this is a late version of the 223 as toadman has pointed out.

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Last edited by Garry_Redmon on Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:17 am
Post subject: Re: Sd Kfz 223 confusion

- toadmanstankpictures

I don't believe so. The pics in the Nuts & Bolts book show the rollers for the turret.


I took these a week ago....



The SdKfz 260 didn't use a turret. Instead, it used a wire screen over the opening.


The turret ring is definitely open, with no sign of a previously mounted wire screen.

Also, the 260/261 weren't produced with a mounted machine gun which means there would be no need for the special mg ammo racks that are inside the 223.


A good point. I just started looking at the 260/261 and hadn't gotten to that fact.
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