±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 724
Total: 724
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Downloads
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Photo Gallery
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: CPGlang
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: CPGlang
21: Photo Gallery
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: News Archive
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Downloads
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: Community Forums
54: Your Account
55: Photo Gallery
56: Home
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Your Account
61: CPGlang
62: Home
63: Photo Gallery
64: Photo Gallery
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Your Account
68: Photo Gallery
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: CPGlang
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Downloads
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: CPGlang
84: Home
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Downloads
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Photo Gallery
104: Home
105: Photo Gallery
106: Photo Gallery
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Your Account
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Community Forums
113: Downloads
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: News
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: CPGlang
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: News
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: Photo Gallery
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: CPGlang
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Your Account
145: Community Forums
146: Member Screenshots
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Photo Gallery
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Home
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Photo Gallery
159: CPGlang
160: Downloads
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: News Archive
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Member Screenshots
167: CPGlang
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: CPGlang
175: Community Forums
176: Downloads
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Photo Gallery
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Your Account
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: CPGlang
197: Search
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Home
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: News
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: CPGlang
234: Community Forums
235: Downloads
236: Statistics
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Downloads
241: Photo Gallery
242: Your Account
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Community Forums
250: Home
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Your Account
256: Statistics
257: Community Forums
258: CPGlang
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Home
264: Downloads
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Downloads
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Member Screenshots
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Photo Gallery
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Your Account
284: News
285: Home
286: Downloads
287: Community Forums
288: News
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: News
300: Photo Gallery
301: Community Forums
302: Photo Gallery
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Home
307: Downloads
308: Community Forums
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Home
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: CPGlang
322: News
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Photo Gallery
326: Community Forums
327: Downloads
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Statistics
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Community Forums
338: Search
339: Home
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Home
344: Photo Gallery
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Member Screenshots
350: Photo Gallery
351: Your Account
352: Community Forums
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Your Account
358: Downloads
359: Home
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Community Forums
365: CPGlang
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: CPGlang
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Photo Gallery
379: Home
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Photo Gallery
385: Your Account
386: Member Screenshots
387: Home
388: Your Account
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Photo Gallery
392: Photo Gallery
393: Community Forums
394: Home
395: CPGlang
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Downloads
406: Photo Gallery
407: Downloads
408: Downloads
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Downloads
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Photo Gallery
419: Photo Gallery
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Home
425: Photo Gallery
426: Downloads
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Photo Gallery
439: Photo Gallery
440: Photo Gallery
441: Your Account
442: Community Forums
443: CPGlang
444: Community Forums
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Home
450: Home
451: CPGlang
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: CPGlang
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: CPGlang
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Downloads
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Search
468: Community Forums
469: Your Account
470: Photo Gallery
471: Photo Gallery
472: Community Forums
473: Photo Gallery
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Home
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Home
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Photo Gallery
495: Community Forums
496: Photo Gallery
497: Community Forums
498: Home
499: Your Account
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: CPGlang
503: Your Account
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: CPGlang
510: Your Account
511: Home
512: Community Forums
513: Photo Gallery
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Home
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: CPGlang
520: Downloads
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Home
525: Community Forums
526: Photo Gallery
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Your Account
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Home
533: Home
534: Community Forums
535: Downloads
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Downloads
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Home
553: Home
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Home
558: Downloads
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Downloads
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Statistics
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Home
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Statistics
577: Community Forums
578: Downloads
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Photo Gallery
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Your Account
586: Photo Gallery
587: Community Forums
588: Member Screenshots
589: Home
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Home
593: Photo Gallery
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Photo Gallery
600: Home
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Photo Gallery
606: Photo Gallery
607: Home
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Home
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Home
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Home
618: Photo Gallery
619: Home
620: CPGlang
621: Home
622: Photo Gallery
623: Downloads
624: Community Forums
625: Photo Gallery
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Downloads
630: Home
631: Community Forums
632: Home
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Home
636: Downloads
637: Community Forums
638: Statistics
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Home
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: CPGlang
647: Statistics
648: Community Forums
649: CPGlang
650: Photo Gallery
651: Community Forums
652: Home
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: CPGlang
669: Downloads
670: Home
671: Home
672: Community Forums
673: Home
674: Community Forums
675: Photo Gallery
676: Community Forums
677: Home
678: CPGlang
679: Photo Gallery
680: CPGlang
681: CPGlang
682: Community Forums
683: Photo Gallery
684: Community Forums
685: Home
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Community Forums
697: Photo Gallery
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: Community Forums
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Home
705: Photo Gallery
706: Community Forums
707: Home
708: Community Forums
709: Community Forums
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Home
713: Photo Gallery
714: Community Forums
715: Downloads
716: Community Forums
717: Home
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Home
721: Community Forums
722: Community Forums
723: Community Forums
724: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

The Panzer IV no. 14 (UniqueID 169) on that page is the tank we're talking about:

preservedtanks.com/Typ...p;Select=1

I took the identification of 'Ausf H' from Wheels and Tracks magazine, where it's covered in issue 30. However I should not have taken it at face value as I can see clearly now it is an Ausf J. I will make a correction on the website and in future editions of the Preserved German Tanks book.

- Doug_Kibbey
Can you give an angle of the rear that your looking specifically for (and example would be helpful)? I have 2-3 eye level views from various angles, or do you need a "top down view" of rear deck? Might not have that, but maybe something close.


The 'standard' Pz IV look, e.g. for Ausf G, H, etc. is a large horizontal exhaust silencer (muffler) on the rear plate, with a smaller silencer to the left of it:



A distinctive feature of the Ausf J was that this was removed, see for example the Pz IV Ausf J at Saumur:

preservedtanks.com/Det...PhotoID=89

In very late production models, a completely new exhaust system was used with two vertical silencers (similar to the Panther or Tiger), see for example the Pz IV Ausf J at Latrun:

preservedtanks.com/Det...otoID=1176

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

FINALLY, page two...I can post pics again. Laughing

Here is the bit you're looking for. Obvious bracketry for the silencer, but the bit itself is no longer present (I notice that the example at Saumur you cited lacks these brackets). Rough area on hull behind bracketry suggest to me that one was mounted at one time, mufflers are notorious for rusting out and quickly becoming unpresentable, besides, why would brackets be mounted if there was no intention to use them if simplification in manufacture was the point) Should come as no surprise, lots of bits are missing (what, for example, went in the tank that the curvy pieces to right supported? Whole tank is gone).

Also, though mismatched, the turret lacked the rear pistol ports I've seen in some versions. Also, closer inspection of the interior main gun pics seem to me to be lacking in something where gun enters mantlet. What is it that ain't there? (the diameter is not filling the mantlet opening)



*Edit to add....

Here's a interesting finding from a previous trip. Begs the question, is the reference to hull, turret, or both? Were some J's produced with silencers?....And when did fighting in Moldavia end?



...and since it's referenced on the plate, here's the engine, with one cam cover thoughtfully missing so we can appreciate the gear-driven SOHC (presumably with a gear train somewhat simpler than a Ford 427 "cammer").



Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:23 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Now that we're in a thread with piccie rights again, what's the significance of the number on this housing? And why, apart from needing to put together bits-and-pieces, would the track have solid and hollow center guides?



...and just for the heck of it, I didn't see any signs of the TC's azimuthal indicator doo-hickey. Probably lost to the parts bin of history...or wherever the muffler went.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

I agree it looks like there's a bracket for the auxiliary engine silencer, however it's a different shape to the standard bracket, plus I don't see any connection/pipework going to it, which you can see for the missing main silencer next to it (it sat in the 'curvy pieces'). I'm still thinking it was an Ausf J without a silencer, and some other item has been stowed in its place.

For identification I haven't considered the turret at all, since we know it was added later. Regarding a gap around the gun going into the mantlet - could it just indicate the gun hasn't fully returned from the recoil position (i.e. it's jammed?). Regarding the hollow track centre guides my guess would be the same as reducing the number of return rollers - just another way of reducing the amount of metal required.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
BruceClark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

Hi,
I agree that this is a Late J hull- the extended hull sides for tow hooks and the 3 return rollers are the clues. The straps on the rear do look like they are intended for the auxilliary muffler but there is no port in the rear hull- this should be visible or plated over. It also has late cast idler and late lower tow hook though this latter may have been added post war.

The casting number on the final drive housing is just that- a casting number referenced in some drawing from long ago. The mixture of track types is fairly common in late war vehicles and especially museum exhibits- you use the track at hand to outfit the exhibit. The hollow guide horns are earlier than the solid, by the way. Not sure whether this was to simplify the manufacturing process- as it seems counter intuitive to use more metal later in the war- or whether there was an issue with the hollow guidehorns collecting mud, ice, snow, etc.

The turret is another issue indeed....

Hope that helps
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Good stuff, guys. It seems fighting in Moldavia was going on well into 1944, see: "Jassy–Kishinev Offensive (August 1944)"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...1Dec44.jpg

I'll try to get some more pics up later, including main gun/battery and coax/bow MG shrouds from inside. Might be original, but damaged from careless visitors pulling or standing on (museum visitors do some strange things to artifacts, sometimes). They had a bent and squirrely look to them, especially the bow gun (which is more vulnerable to abuse by visitors).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
BruceClark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

Doug and Trevor,

I went back to my photos of this vehicle taken prior to restoration.
( A buddy was a Nato military attache to former Warsaw pact countries and visited many of these former "off limits" collections.)

I have a clear shot of the rear plate showing some kind of container- oil? water?- held in place by those straps. Definitely not a muffler.

Now if I could only figure out how to post photos here...

BTW Will Phelps in "Panzer IV Survivors: A to J" lists this vehicle as a late J hull with a late H turret.

Cheers! Bruce
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

- BruceClark
Doug and Trevor,

I went back to my photos of this vehicle taken prior to restoration.
( A buddy was a Nato military attache to former Warsaw pact countries and visited many of these former "off limits" collections.)

I have a clear shot of the rear plate showing some kind of container- oil? water?- held in place by those straps. Definitely not a muffler.

Now if I could only figure out how to post photos here...

BTW Will Phelps in "Panzer IV Survivors: A to J" lists this vehicle as a late J hull with a late H turret.

Cheers! Bruce


Bruce,
Thanks, that's helpful! The tank might have been removed or fallen off when, as I notice in some of my closeups, the bracket welds have broken away from the hull at right bottom (I think it was).

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Yes - great picture, Bruce, that clears up any confusion.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Here's the likely explanation for why the tank is no longer fitted (whatever it was for....it wasn't apparently deemed worthy of repair)

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:31 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Not sure if this might help, by Garry Redmon just updated his 'Armor for the Ages' website. It includes the recently relocated Panzer Mk IV, that is receiving some attention.

Armor for the Ages : Panzer IV Project

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:02 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

- Dontos
Not sure if this might help, by Garry Redmon just updated his 'Armor for the Ages' website. It includes the recently relocated Panzer Mk IV, that is receiving some attention.

Armor for the Ages : Panzer IV Project

Don


Don,
Great pics, whether yours or Garry's. Not surprisingly, some aspects of the Bucharest vehicle are in better condition (forward drivers' and RO compartments, drive system up there)...the results of not having the weather exposure of the APG vehicle...and other aspects are just...incomplete (no turret basket, no internal stowage bins to speak of, etc.). APG vehicle is more original and complete, but exposure took it's toll. Interior of Bucharest vehicle was better protected (what there is of it), but is far less complete/original. White paint exceeds the rust, however.

Of course, you can't restore what ain't there, and that's probably not in the budget anyway. Between the old AFV Interiors file (may it remain forever in our hearts and hard drives), Garry's pics, and the Bucharest vehicle...I've gotten a new appreciation for what the inside is supposed to be like. I have to say that in many ways, it's easier to relate to later Patton-series vehicles in spatial use than U.S. vehicles of the same period (that is to say, more "modern" in scale and layout than the M4's). It's possible now to imagine what a "new" one should look like inside...and I haven't even seen the more pristine examples out there.

I was standing on the hull floor, however, and don't have any feel for what the fighting compartment height is like with turret basket under your feet.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:50 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

- BruceClark
... I have a clear shot of the rear plate showing some kind of container- oil? water?- held in place by those straps. Definitely not a muffler...


It is actually the muffler for the auxiliary engine which turned the turret and this makes it an early J at the latest, since the auxiliary engine was dropped during the J-production run.



Jens O.
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Jens - I think you need to reread the discussion, as we started with that idea but decided it wasn't the case. If you're aware of that, then we'd be interested in your reasoning.

Dontos, the FK Panzer IV has exactly the muffler where we would expect it since it is a much earlier vehicle:



A great set of pictures though!

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:12 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Here is better view from AFTA website



Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum