±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: nbrich1
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6596

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 71
Total: 71
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Photo Gallery
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Downloads
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Home
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Photo Gallery
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Latrun Armor Museum, Israel
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 21, 2006
Posts: 1412

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 4:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

Thanks Trevor, More than sevearl of the signs are off.....
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3941
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

- TrevorLarkum
- Neil_Baumgardner
I want to say it had something to do with looking over the Suez Canal - I could be completely off, but I seem to remember something like that was used between '67 & '73...


Neil, are you thinking of this one?



Oh yeah, right, thats it...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

1) Very NICE photos - sharp and well exposed. The watermark can be a bit annoying to people like me who like to download the photos, but I certainly know why it's there.

2) Some comments;

your first M47 shot (the OD one) is an M47 that was rebuilt with 105mm gun and diesel engine. Italy, Iran, and ??? had these

the second M47 (the sand colored one) looks pretty original

the M32VVSS looks like an original M32 - it has the grouser compartment vents at the rear.

the M32HVSS is more correctly an M32A1B1 (A1 for the HVSS modification, B1 is for the M4A1 hull). Very much like the one at the Patton Museum

The first M3 shown is a Grant, the second is a "Lee". I couldn't see the engine deck to see if it's an M3A-whatever. Latrun has/had an M31 recovery vehicle in good shape, that would give Israel quite a collection of M3 medium variants.

Thanks again for sharing.

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 21, 2006
Posts: 1412

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:34 am
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

Gary Thank you for the info, all the "watermark" is about I appreciate people asking me first to use the pics. everyone is welcome to them without the marks. I'm trying to post some of the larger vehicles collections over on the CDSG site. We have the experts here and its not me, I appreciate the help from everyone here Please feel free to add anything.

again anyone want pics without "watermarks' just ask, we will figure out how to get them to you...
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:00 am
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

Fantastic series of pictures,

If I ever get a chance I will have to go there.

Few questions,

All that odd bridging equipment, are those left over from '73 from when the Egyptians breached the defenses?

Picture 133, Stared at it for quite some time. Looks like a Centurion Turret on a modified Cent chassis. Uses what appears to be the US AVDS-1790 series engine. I at first thought it might have been some pilot vehicle for the Merkava program but the structure behind the drivers hatch doesn't allow a gun to depress. I'm stumped, what is it????

Thanks for sharing AJ2,

_________________
Joe D
*****************
My M60 Gallery
*****************
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 21, 2006
Posts: 1412

PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:26 am
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

Joe, this will help Smile I will try to get another pic from my buddy

[pic deleted


Last edited by armyjunk2 on Thu May 28, 2009 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 15, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 1:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

- Joe_D
Picture 133, Stared at it for quite some time. Looks like a Centurion Turret on a modified Cent chassis. Uses what appears to be the US AVDS-1790 series engine. I at first thought it might have been some pilot vehicle for the Merkava program but the structure behind the drivers hatch doesn't allow a gun to depress. I'm stumped, what is it????


Joe, you're spot on. I researched Latrun and wrote up all the tanks there for a book on Preserved Tanks in the Middle East. If you guys are interested, I'll make it available for download. Anyway, to quote from it, entry #57:

"This is a prototype of the Merkava, with a new hull on a heavily modified Centurion chassis. It was constructed after the Six Day War, under the direction of General Tal. It had its engine at the front, by positioning the driver at the back and driving the vehicle in reverse. It is fitted with a Centurion turret, apparently from a Mark 3, that is without its gun and is stripped of most external fittings."

My understanding is that it was just a concept trial vehicle, i.e. to try out the feasibility of having the turret behind the engine.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

Thanks Trevor,

Guess it was an automotive trails type vehicle then, with no need for a gun. Turret was most likely necessary for weight.

_________________
Joe D
*****************
My M60 Gallery
*****************
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3941
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

I found #136 to be very interesting, if it is what I think it is...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 15, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:39 am
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

I'm thinking you're thinking it's what was used to breach the Suez Canal?

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Buq-Buq
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 84

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:01 am
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

Yeah, I believe that #136 is the "Roller Bridge". This bridge that was designed prior to the 1973 war, and constructed in Sinai . . . vaguely along the route that would be tentatively used for a crossing of the Suez Canal. There was a prepared site, called "The Yard", just north of the Matzmed fortification (on the northern edge of the Great Bitter Lake, opposite Deversoir), where the ground and Suez Canal berm had been prepped for a major bridging operation. The 400 ton "Roller Bridge" was towed to the canal by a company of tanks. Some sources say that the towing unit was comprised of tanks that had been firepower-killed in battle, but seem to recall that I've recently read that this tank company was specially-designated and trained for the operation. As the bridge was being moved towards the canal, apparently it broke down, and the bridging operation was thrown into chaos (note that this is apart from the efforts of the Egyptian troops in the area!). For a while, the Israelis had to rely on the Gillois amphibians (#137) to ferry units across the canal.

I have often wondered how a bridge could 'break down', but seeing how this thing was constructed, it is easy to imagine now . . .




Mark
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:51 am
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

I am not 100%, but I don't remember italian M47s using a 105mm gun. Do you have any reference of this?
Back to top
View user's profile
RKlaus
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

Armyjunk,
Thanks for posting these. Great pictures!
I'm particularly grateful for #009. I had not known that any of the upgraded White Scout Cars had survived.

Robert
Back to top
View user's profile
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
Posts: 6249
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

I do wish they'd make some effort to push that Sheridan M81 gun back into battery. Just stick a hydraulic jack in there and pump away if that's what it takes.

Curious about the M47 with the 105mm gun also. I know the Israelis were masters of upgrades and upgunning. Never seen this one before.

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Latrun Armor Museum, Israel

That M47 105mm looks just like the BMY specials,

TACOM designed an upgrade kit for the M47 utilizing M60A1 components, much like the M48A3 program. Was for the export market. Called M47M. Bunch of them were converted for the Iranian Army. Pakistan also converted a bunch. Conversions were done in Iran for both. Gap between 5th and 6th road wheels was created so the AVDS-1790 oil pan would clear the torsion bars. Chrysler Espania also used the same kit for the Spanish Army, but I think they kept the 90mm.

Massimo,

I don't think the Italian Army converted any of theirs since they were replaced by M60's and Leo 1's IIRC. I do Know OTO Melera made a kit very similar if not the same as the BMY one and offered it for export.

This tank may be one given to Israel to demonstrate the kit. It doesn't look like Former Iranian or Pakistani.

_________________
Joe D
*****************
My M60 Gallery
*****************
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum