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Thun: Panzers
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 1:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

- Massimo_Foti
BTW Trevor. I see you are missing Thun's Pz IV picture on your website. I would be more than glad to send you a few and let you pick one as you see fit.

Massimo


You have prompted me to do a job I have been putting off for a while. I went up in the attic last night and retrieved from the bottom of a box of old tank stuff the pictures I used on the front covers of Preserved German Tanks 1 and 2, just as they had been returned from the printers in 1994/5. There were 18 (9 on each book) and I have now scanned them and uploaded them to PreservedTanks.com. They fill in a few gaps, and include the Thun Pz IV and King Tiger.


- Massimo_Foti
Shawn, I don't have a website dedicated to AFVs (hint: not yet!).
Massimo


A lot of the pictures and information at PreservedTanks.com and in the books comes from a team of contributors and I'm hoping to expand that and open PTC to more people. I would happy to provide a section of PTC to host and display your photographs. If you can give me a bit of time I'll upload those Pz IV and Panther photo's to show you how it would look.

Having said that, I've just had a look around your website so I can see you're not short of web skills - I won't be offended if you say no! (I'm currently building up PTC and it still has a long way to go, but it's a pretty solid foundation of ASP.NET front end to a SQL Server database.)

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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 4:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

Thanks for the offer Trevor, as for the walkarounds and other photographs, including the Pz IV and Panther ones I just posted, I have other plans. It's just a matter of time, but they will be visible on a dedicated website (the number is pretty huge).

This doesn't prevent me to contribute to PTC. I would be more than glad to fill any gaps you may have, especially for places in Switzerland or Italy that are easier to reach for me.

Thanks for understanding

Massimo
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 11:43 am
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

- SHAWN
Thank you Massimo, I just downloaded them.


and so did I Mr. Green Mr. Green

Thanks for the pics !!

P-O

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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

- Massimo_Foti
Thanks for the offer Trevor, as for the walkarounds and other photographs, including the Pz IV and Panther ones I just posted, I have other plans. It's just a matter of time, but they will be visible on a dedicated website (the number is pretty huge).

This doesn't prevent me to contribute to PTC. I would be more than glad to fill any gaps you may have, especially for places in Switzerland or Italy that are easier to reach for me.

Thanks for understanding

Massimo


That's absolutely fine. I'll put up a couple of example shots, then - when you have your site ready - send me a link and I'll link from there to your site.

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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 8:58 am
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

- SHAWN


Rikard, I would say is a modified D or an early A turret (Thun vehicle has pistol port and loading port at the turret rear-- a D feature).
It isnt truly a D turrret, no pistol ports and/or side loading port, although it has a pistol port on the rear of the turret in the same locations as a D turret (why? dont know-- modified D turret?)... it has an A cupola, but many D's were upgraded later. That mantlet... I am wondering how much of this they cobbled together to make it a museum piece. speculation...
But I am glad they have it! Glad they put it together to get this. It is a jigsaw puzzle, still a nice piece of history


My memory is somewhat like Swiss cheese sad to say, but without reference I seem to remember that the rear pistol port was a feature found up until mid production Ausf. A. The Thun Panther has been debated intensely over the last few years but the only consensus seems to be that it's a hybrid, a D or early A hull and some kind of A turret. An early A turret should have had pistol ports on the sides (loading port deleted), if we could get shots of the turret roof that could help clear up the question.

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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:48 am
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

if we could get shots of the turret roof that could help clear up the question


Yeah, that would be nice.

I've seen pictures taken in Thun by people that clearly jumped on the tanks. But you aren't supposed to do that, so I don't.

A little folding stair could be a good solution. But the Panzermuseum is inside a live Army's barrack, and you have to ask the sentries to get in. Not sure how they will react if go there with a stair Laughing

On top of that I speak italian/english, the boys out there typically speak german/french, so we already have some issue understanding each other. Carring a stair along will not help, me think... Finally, I've got there by train, so the stair wasn't an option. Crying or Very sad

BTW For what matters, my theory is the Panther was assembled out of different wrecks

Massimo
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Tichenor
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 11:25 am
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

Hi Massimo

A Joe_D pole would do the job real well.

BTW very nice pictures, may I use some of them at my register, credits will be added to the author, in this case that wil be you, as always.

Michel
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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 11:43 am
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

Not sure if a pole would look less dangerous to the sentries than a little folding stair (I am talking about the one with 3-4 steps), but that's definitely an option Laughing

As for pictures, as long as you provide credits, feel free to use them for the register. I've covered everything that was in Thun, apart from FT-17 and Stug III, but I haven't posted all vehicles here. If you have one missing from the register, or looking for a better quality shot, feel free to ask.

I have all Full's museum too (apart the Mowag thingies), plus many old Lesany and Cecchignola pics. I have Saumur and Brussels too, but I guess you have them well covered already.

Feel free to contact me using PM to share email address for any future needs.

Massimo
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Tichenor
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

Thanks Massimo

Brussels, Saumur are well covered, Cecchignola is a blank spot to me so if you could help me out there, I would be greatfull. Lesany will be visited in July.

Michel
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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

You are listing only tanks, right? Does it means all fully tracked AFV, including infantry vehicles and self-propelled guns? I went checking your website but it seems like MySQL is misbehaving over there.

I see Cecchignola is a blank spot for most people. I'll try to fill the gap within a few days (leaving for a short business trip later today). I am sure I will surprise many of you.

Lesany is just amazing, I was there back in 1998. Reaching the place was already a challenge, because it wasn't in the maps and nobody from the hotel and tourist office knew about it. Finally, after asking around for a few days, an old guy gave me the right info. I took a local train with a diesel-driven locomotive, it took more than one hour to travel 40 km Laughing

But it was worth. Back in those days I used films, no digital, so I was more careful picking my subjects. I have 700 shots of 46 different subjects, but it's worth much more than that. I think Lesany is no less interesting than Saumur. Nowadays they are also better organized to handle tourism too.

Massimo
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Tichenor
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 4:32 am
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

The only criteria I use is it has to be armoured, tracked or wheeled it doesn't matter. Is it armoured and not used in active service it can be added to the register.
BTW the site works again Confused

Michel
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

- Tichenor

Brussels, Saumur are well coveredl


not the Saumur Museum's reserves and the "hidden tanks".. I will have an opportunity to visit these famous reserves in one week (30-31 may). The only problem is that we are not allowed to take pictures. However I will do a "paper list".

P-O

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Tichenor
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 6:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

Hi P-O

The hidden armour is always a problem, even here in Belgium i'm sure there are some vehicles hidden somewhere. Every time i'm in Kapellen I have the impression they keep me away from some hangers, why should they do that?

Michel
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

Michel,

Some times the old stuff is used as test beds and still are under the "Secret" domain. There are a few examples here in the states that fall into that category. You get tidbits here and there of it's existence but access is still "Verboten". You just hope that when they are done with the vehicle they save instead of scrap her.

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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Thun: Panzers

Massimo has kindly sent me his photo's of the panzers at Thun, and they're now up at PreservedTanks.com:

preservedtanks.com/Loc...8&Select=4

It's taken a little longer than originally planned as I have changed the site code to show the Contributor for each photo - something I've been meaning to do for some time, but it was necessary for Thun since all my photo's are old and all the news ones come from Massimo (the site always shows new ones ahead of old ones).

I'll now start on the tanks of other nationalities at Thun, so they'll be appearing on that link over the next couple of weeks.

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