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Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Museum
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Museum

Yeah, that and the front shape of the hull. I'll need to check my Crismon sometime this weekend, unless someone can beat me to it...

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Mus

- blackdog




That is an army prototype

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Museum

- Neil_Baumgardner
Its close, but this appears to be the second XM759

preservedtanks.com/Ima...hotoID=200



No thats the original prototype.

And this is the Marine Corp prototype..



EDIT - Had to change the image link because I was working on the web pages

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Last edited by JimWeb on Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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blackdog
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Mus

How can you tell? As far as I know, it was in the Amphibious Museum on Camp Pendleton and then subsequently loaned to a private collector, sold illegally by this person, restored by the next owner, then taken back by the USMC.

On a related note, I find this vehicle to be the perfect example of why many one of a kind vehicles are better off in civilian hands in private collections than in government hands. It would have never been restored to the condition it is now in if it had stayed in the Marine Corps.
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Museum

Oh and I fixed the link on my web site...

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Museum

So Jim, what is this then?

preservedtanks.com/Ima...hotoID=200

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Museum

- Neil_Baumgardner
So Jim, what is this then?

preservedtanks.com/Ima...hotoID=200

Neil


Thats the original prototype - it performed well so both the Army & USMC decided to buy their own prototypes. The US Army (of course) went for a utility version and the USMC went for the luxury model Wink

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Mus

- blackdog
How can you tell?


Pictures from the Army trials - conducted seperatly from the USMC trials of course Wink


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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Mus

- blackdog
How can you tell? As far as I know, it was in the Amphibious Museum on Camp Pendleton and then subsequently loaned to a private collector, sold illegally by this person, restored by the next owner, then taken back by the USMC.


Interesting - So which is this one then...


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blackdog
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Mus

That's the one I'm talking about.

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Museum

Interesting... you will have noticed by now that we have images of four different vehicles?

I'm beginning to think that the USMC ended up with the army prototype as well..

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blackdog
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Mus

In terms of surviving ones, I'm seeing the two at Quantico, and the one that I posted pictures of.

www.oto6.free.fr/6roue...airoll.htm

Picture #4 = Quantico
Picture #5 = Pendleton Amphibious Museum
Picture #6 = Same As #5 In Private Collection - but now back at Pendleton

-----------------------------------
Edit:
-----------------------------------

Upon further research, it would appear as though the one in picture #4 on the web page I linked to is actually designated as LVA-X1. If you look closely at the picture on the page linked to by Neil, you can see that this is also stenciled on the side of this vehicle. In conclusion, I think that it would be safe to say that this specific vehicle is actually an LVA-X1 and not an XM-759.

This would fit with my having heard that there are only two actual XM-759 prototypes in existence: The one that is at Pendleton, and the other similar looking one which was also linked to by Neil which resides at Quantico.
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Museum

I'm even more convinced that the one at Pendleton is the Army prototype...

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blackdog
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Mus

I'm not going to say it is or it isn't because I don't know for a fact but considering the fact that it was in the Amphib Museum on Pendleton (as early as 1975) I'd personally lean towards it being one of at least two XM-759 prototypes that the USMC had. Remember, there were supposedly 7 XM-759's made. Plenty to go around for everyone.

Here's what that website has to say, courtesy of Google Translate...

1 - Airoll: The first working prototype simplified called Airoll (photo 3), was established in June 1962 by Ingersoll Kalamazoo Division of Borg Warner and the U.S. Navy. After testing, this system was considered the first vehicle outperforming the wheel and the caterpillar. Sixteen tires 'Terra Tires' attached to chains driven by large diameter sprockets rotate freely. The tires were less pressed between the 'docks' and the ground. To move through the deep mire half liquid, swamps, snow and sand, the rollers do not turn over but always moving in translation and act as wheels. It was reported that the device behaved better than any known vehicle in the mud almost liquid. Powered by a Chrysler V8 engine and weighing 9 T, it could travel at 50 km / h on land and 16 on the water.

Photo%204%20-%20Airoll%201,%202nd%20prototype%20in%201965.%20 2%20-%20Airoll%20I:%20The%20Borg-Warner%20Corporation%20and%20the%20U.S.%20Marine%20Corps%20in%201965%20presented%20a%20more%20elaborate%20version,%20closer%20and%20more%20practice,%20I%20Airoll%20(photo%204),%20equipped%20with%2013%20tires%20on%20each%20side,%20mud%20guards%20,%20position%20lights%20and%20windshield.%20With%20a%20capacity%20of%20half%20a%20tonne%20and%20tested%20extensively%20on%2015%20000%20km,%20this%20achievement%20was%20rather%20successful.%20With%20excellent%20skills%20on%20soft%20soil%20and%20water,%20the%20lateral%20stability%20and%20reliability%20should%20be%20improved.%20Known%20also%20as%20the%20'Water%20Skipper'%20or%20LVA-X1,%20it%20is%20to%20our%20knowledge%20a%20copy%20to%20the%20USMC%20Museum%20in%20Quantico,%20Maryland.%20%20 Photo%205%20-%20XM%20759%20at%20Pendelton%20Museum%20around%201975. Photo%206%20-%20XM%20759%20in%20a%20Museum%20of%20Northern%20California%20around%202005.%20 Photo%207%20-%20XM%20759%20in%20tests%20in%201967.
Photo 8 - XM 759 in tests in 1967.

3 - XM 759: The U.S. Army took the idea and ordered the XM759 Marginal Terrain Vehicle (photos 5-6-7-8) to Pacific Car and Foundry. It weighed 4.2 tonnes for a payload of 1.4 tonnes, length 6.2 m, 2.8 m wide and 17 tires on each side.

USMC bought 7 more better equipped to test and manufactured between February and March 1967. The XM 759 could carry 14 fully equipped men plus 2 crew. The features are: ground pressure 0.15 kg/cm2, tank 223 liters and 260 km of autonomy, maximum gradient 60% and reached 30% Devers, crossing a vertical wall of 0.9 m and a trench 2 m wide. It was self troubleshoot with capstan heads bolted on the front sprockets or rear wheels. The engine was located behind the cab.


Note: The vehicle in photo #5 and #6 are the same one. I know this for a fact.
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Help/Pics Needed - Former Quantico Marine-Air Ground Mus

- blackdog


Upon further research, it would appear as though the one in picture #4 on the web page I linked to is actually designated as LVA-X1. If you look closely at the picture on the page linked to by Neil, you can see that this is also stenciled on the side of this vehicle. In conclusion, I think that it would be safe to say that this specific vehicle is actually an LVA-X1 and not an XM-759.


That one is an Airoll 1 prototype - they preceded the XM759 series and possibly was designated LVA-X1 but remeber that it may have had that painted on it after it became a museum exhibit. You know what museum staff are like for painting things on vehicles that aren't quite correct

Wink

BTW were those images taken by you?

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