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"New" EFV Prototype Unveiled at Quantico
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3941
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:55 am
Post subject: "New" EFV Prototype Unveiled at Quantico

Some pub is referring to it as the "first" prototype, but they've had EFV prototypes for many years now... A USMC release says its the "first of seven new prototypes currently being manufactured at the Joint Services Manufacturing Center in Lima, Ohio.." I think its the first newly, redesigned prototype, or first LRIP prototype (or both).

www.aviationweek.com/a...0Prototype

U.S. Marines Praise EFV, Roll Out Prototype

Aviation Week

May 5, 2010

By Michael Fabey

QUANTICO,%20Va.%20—%20The%20Expeditionary%20Fighting%20Vehicle%20(EFV)%20is%20the%20linchpin%20of%20the%20U.S.%20Marine%20Corps%20expeditionary%20warfare%20strategy%20and%20the%20program%20is%20on%20track%20for%20development,%20delivery%20and%20deployment,%20service%20program%20officials%20said%20May%204%20at%20what%20turned%20into%20a%20mini%20pep%20rally%20for%20the%20vehicle%20and%20its%20supporters. Taking%20direct%20aim%20at%20some%20of%20the%20concerns%20raised%20recently%20by%20Defense%20Secretary%20Robert%20Gates%20that%20Marines%20may%20not%20need%20the%20EFV%20or%20that%20the%20vehicle%20could%20prove%20too%20costly,%20program%20and%20Marine%20Corps%20officials%20said%20the%20vehicle%20is%20exactly%20what%20they%20need%20to%20conduct%20operations%20from%20the%20sea. The%20EFV%20is%20meant%20to%20serve%20as%20a%20vehicle%20bridge%20for%20Marines,%20carrying%20them%20from%20Navy%20ships%20through%20the%20surf%20and%20sand%20and%20miles%20deep%20into%20enemy%20terrain. Program%20officials%20extolled%20the%20vehicle’s%20prowess%20and%20promise%20at%20a%20ceremony%20at%20the%20National%20Museum%20of%20the%20Marine%20Corps%20here,%20with%20the%20museum’s%20unique%20skyline%20sculpture%20in%20the%20background%20and%20a%20newly%20minted%20prototype%20EFV%20in%20the%20foreground. Program%20Manager%20Col.%20Keith%20Moore%20called%20the%20EFV%20the%20“world’s%20most%20capable%20combat%20vehicle.”%20As%20for%20costs,%20Moore%20acknowledged%20that%20in%20the%20current%20economic%20climate,%20everything%20must%20be%20done%20to%20cut%20the%20vehicle’s%20price.%20Current%20production%20unit%20costs%20run%20about%20$16%20million%20per%20EFV,%20with%20program%20acquisition%20costs%20reaching%20about%20$22%20million%20per%20vehicle. The%20service%20wants%20to%20buy%20about%20573%20EFVs%20to%20carry%20Marines%20and%20another%2067%20to%20be%20used%20as%20communications-and-control%20vehicles. Program%20procurement%20costs%20will%20be%20about%20$9.5%20billion,%20Moore%20said.%20The%20total%20program%20costs,%20he%20acknowledged,%20could%20be%20as%20high%20as%20$13%20billion.%20He%20hopes%20to%20shave%20the%20unit%20costs%20by%20millions%20of%20dollars%20per%20copy. For%20now,%20though,%20the%20main%20Marine%20thrust%20will%20be%20to%20put%20the%20EFV%20though%20additional%20rigorous%20testing.%20One%20of%20the%20main%20issues,%20Moore%20said,%20will%20be%20to%20make%20the%20vehicle%20more%20reliable.%20He%20said%20it%20is%20quite%20common%20for%20prototypes%20to%20have%20low%20percentage%20rates%20for%20hours%20between%20failures%20—%20in%20the%2020%%20range. The%20focus%20of%20the%20test%20program%20for%20the%20next%2018-24%20months%20will%20be%20to%20increase%20those%20percentages. “We%20need%20it%20in%20the%2050s%20[percent%20range]%20by%20the%20time%20we%20field%20the%20vehicle,”%20he%20said. Current%20plans%20call%20for%20the%20Marines%20to%20field%20the%20EFV%20in%202015,%20with%20a%20low-rate-initial-production%20date%20of%20January%20or%20February%202012. As%20with%20any%20prototype%20testing,%20Moore%20expects%20hiccups.%20For%20example,%20in%20March%20the%20Marines%20found%20that%20coding%20errors%20and%20configuration%20issues%20with%20the%20software%20developed%20for%20the%20EFV%20by%20the%20Air%20Force%20made%20the%20vehicle%20respond%20sluggishly.%20Program%20officials%20identified%20the%20problems%20and%20had%20a%20fix%20in%20hand%20within%2017%20days,%20he%20said. Moore%20doubts%20all%20issues%20will%20be%20resolved%20so%20quickly.%20But%20he%20said%20the%20Marines%20will%20not%20treat%20its%20prototype%20with%20kid%20gloves.%20The%20service%20will%20test%20the%2040-ton%20behemoth%20—%20fully%20loaded%20—%20as%20rigorously%20as%20it%20would%20deploy%20it.%20The%20testing%20begins%20this%20spring%20at%20Camp%20Pendleton%20in%20San%20Diego,%20Calif. www.dodbuzz.com/2010/0...takes-aim/ Marines%20Unveil%20EFV;%20Gates%20Takes%20Aim DoDBuzz By%20Greg%20Grant%20Tuesday,%20May%204th,%202010%208:46%20pm Under%20sunny%20skies%20at%20Quantico,%20with%20a%20crowd%20of%20several%20hundred%20well%20wishers%20and%20the%20Marine%20Corps%20museum%20as%20a%20backdrop,%20the%20Marines%20displayed%20the%20latest%20prototype%20of%20their%20swimming%20armored%20personnel%20carrier,%20the%20Expeditionary%20Fighting%20Vehicle%20(EFV).%20They%20unveiled%20it%20not%20quite%2024%20hours%20after%20Defense%20Secretary%20Robert%20Gates%20publicly%20questioned%20the%20very%20need%20for%20the%20costly%20new%20vehicle. In%20one%20of%20his%20now%20trademark%20policy%20shifting%20speeches,%20this%20one%20at%20the%20Navy%20League’s%20annual%20conference,%20Gates%20pointed%20to%20the%20tracked%20amphibian%20as%20one%20of%20two%20examples,%20the%20other%20being%20carriers,%20of%20weapons%20that%20fall%20into%20a%20yawning%20gap%20“between%20the%20capabilities%20we%20are%20pursuing%20and%20those%20that%20are%20actually%20needed%20in%20the%20real%20world%20of%20tomorrow.”%20His%20view%20is%20that%20real%20world%20is%20unlikely%20to%20see%20the%20need%20for%20the%20very%20niche%20capability%20provided%20by%20the%20EFV:%20transporting%20Marines%20at%20high%20speed%20from%20over%20the%20horizon%20onto%20heavily%20defended%20beaches. It’s%20difficult%20to%20overstate%20how%20important%20the%20EFV%20is%20to%20the%20Marine’s%20traditional%20mission%20and%20self%20image%20as%20an%20amphibious%20assault%20force,%20rather%20than%20as%20a%20second%20land%20army,%20as%20it’s%20been%20operating%20over%20the%20past%20eight%20years.%20It%20is%20designed%20to%20enable%20maneuver%20from%20the%20sea,%20a%20key%20concept%20in%20Marine%20operations.%20“The%20EFV]%20creates%20places%20where%20it’s%20simply%20impossible%20for%20an%20enemy%20to%20defend%20against,%20so%20you%20can%20find%20those%20gaps%20and%20exploit%20those%20gaps,%20so%20that%20we%20don’t%20relive%20an%20Iwo%20Jima,%20a%20Tarawa,%20a%20Normandy,”%20said%20Marine%20Col.%20Keith%20Moore,%20EFV%20program%20manager. The%20prototype%20displayed%20today%20at%20Quantico%20is%20one%20of%20seven%20the%20Marines%20have%20bought%20from%20builder%20General%20Dynamics%20that%20will%20be%20shipped%20out%20to%20the%20service’s%20amphibious%20test%20center%20at%20Camp%20Pendleton,%20outside%20San%20Diego,%20Ca.,%20where%20they%20will%20be%20evaluated%20over%20the%20next%20two%20years.%20The%20plan%20is%20to%20field%20the%20first%20operational%20EFVs%20beginning%20in%202015,%20Moore%20said.%20When%20asked%20to%20respond%20to%20Gates’%20comments%20about%20the%20EFV,%20Moore%20said%20the%20Marines%20are%20doing%20everything%20they%20can%20to%20drive%20down%20the%20vehicle’s%20costs,%20which%20currently%20stand%20at%20just%20over%20$16%20million%20a%20copy.%20The%20planned%20buy%20is%20573%20vehicles. There%20is%20little%20question%20that%20the%20EFV%20is%20a%20technological%20marvel.%20It%20is%20a%20massive%20armored%20vehicle%20weighing%2040%20tons%20that%20can%20reach%20water%20speeds%20in%20excess%20of%2025%20knots%20and%2045%20mph%20on%20land,%20all%20while%20carrying%2017%20Marines,%20oh%20and%20it%20has%20a%2030mm%20auto-cannon%20as%20well.%20It’s%20also%20probably%20the%20Marine’s%20most%20controversial%20program,%20says%20Center%20for%20Strategic%20and%20Budgetary%20Assessments’%20Dakota%20Wood,%20which,%20given%20the%20development%20history%20of%20the%20V-22%20Osprey,%20is%20saying%20a%20lot. The%20EFV%20was%20designed%20to%20meet%20the%20requirements%20of%20a%20very%20different%20era,%20when%20an%20armored%20amphibian%20was%20needed%20to%20land%20the%20assault%20echelons%20of%20a%20Marine%20division%20and%20hold%20that%20beachhead%20and%20beat%20back%20the%20Soviet%20motorized%20counterattack.%20It’s%20difficult%20to%20envision%20the%20scenario%20where%20that%20same%20niche%20capability%20is%20needed.%20“We%20have%20to%20take%20a%20hard%20look%20at%20where%20it%20would%20be%20necessary%20or%20sensible%20to%20launch%20another%20major%20amphibious%20landing%20again%20–%20especially%20as%20advances%20in%20anti-ship%20systems%20keep%20pushing%20the%20potential%20launch%20point%20further%20from%20shore,”%20Gates%20said. If%20the%20Marine’s%20amphibious%20ships%20get%20pushed%20too%20far%20out%20to%20shore,%20then%20the%20EFV%20wouldn’t%20even%20launch,%20as%20it%20would%20run%20out%20of%20gas%20soon%20after%20landing%20on%20the%20beach.%20Yet,%20that’s%20exactly%20what%20today’s%20ever%20more%20capable%20anti-ship%20missiles%20are%20doing,%20says%20Wood.%20He%20points%20to%20the%20Chinese%20made%20C-802%20anti-ship%20missile%20that%20Hezbollah%20used%20to%20hit%20an%20Israeli%20corvette;%20the%20C-802%20has%20a%20range%20of%20nearly%2075%20miles.%20Anti-ship%20missiles%20are%20“now%20reaching%20a%20level%20of%20performance%20that%20will%20push%20Navy%20ships%20away%20from%20the%20coastline%20three%20to%20four%20times%20the%20distance%20the%20EFV%20was%20originally%20intended%20to%20traverse,”%20Wood%20writes%20in%20a%20white%20paper%20on%20the%20future%20Marine%20force. Col.%20Moore%20said%20that%20if%20the%20EFV%20is%20launched%20from%2025%20nautical%20miles%20out%20to%20sea,%20it%20can%20move%20about%20120%20miles%20inland%20before%20it%20must%20refuel.%20But%20push%20that%20launch%20point%20too%20much%20further%20out%20and%20the%20EFV’s%20onshore%20mobility%20drops%20pretty%20quickly. Yet,%20the%20EFV’s%20vulnerability%20once%20on%20land,%20not%20water,%20may%20prove%20its%20undoing.%20The%20vehicle’s%20flat%20bottom%20(necessary%20to%20reach%20high%20cross%20water%20speeds),%20low%20ground%20clearance%20(16%20inches),%20and%20very%20flat%20sides,%20are%20precisely%20the%20design%20features%20armored%20vehicle%20builders%20have%20sought%20to%20avoid,%20says%20CSBA’s%20Wood.%20In%20recent%20years,%20the%20land%20forces,%20including%20the%20Marines,%20have%20spent%20billions%20of%20dollars%20buying%20up%20MRAP%20vehicles%20with%20hull’s%20designed%20specifically%20to%20withstand%20IED%20blasts. Moore%20confirmed%20what%20sources%20had%20told%20us%20already,%20that%20recent%20tests%20showed%20the%20EFV%20was%20vulnerable%20to%20large%20underbelly%20IEDs%20that%20penetrated%20the%20hull%20of%20older%20prototypes.%20The%20plan%20is%20to%20fit%20the%20EFV’s%20flat%20bottom%20with%20modular%20appliqué%20armor%20kits,%20“when%20the%20vehicle%20is%20operating%20for%20extended%20periods%20inland%20in%20the%20type%20of%20threat%20environment%20where%20you%20would%20see%20a%20proliferation%20of%20IEDs.”%20The%20standard%20armor%20kit%20provides%20protection%20against%20155mm%20high%20explosive%20fragments%20and%20up%20to%2014.5mm%20direct%20fire;%20the%20vehicle’s%20armor%20held%20up%20well%20against%20IED%20hits%20from%20the%20side,%20Moore%20said. But%20the%20EFV%20may%20well%20fall%20to%20Gates’%20axe%20for%20the%20same%20reason%20the%20Army’s%20FCS%20vehicles%20did:%20he%20wasn’t%20convinced%20they%20would%20provide%20sufficient%20protection%20to%20the%20troops%20inside.%20The%20current%20wars%20show%20that%20the%20character%20of%20war%20is%20evolving,%20as%20it%20continually%20does;%20new%20enemies%20are%20searching%20for%20novel%20and%20unconventional%20means%20to%20best%20the%20American%20military’s%20high-tech%20arsenal.%20Today’s%20enemies%20have%20developed%20inexpensive%20yet%20very%20lethal%20IEDs%20and%20EFPs%20designed%20specifically%20to%20destroy%20American%20armored%20vehicles. In%20many%20respects,%20the%20EFV%20makes%20the%20enemy’s%20job%20easier,%20says%20a%20leading%20national%20security%20analyst%20who%20has%20served%20as%20a%20key%20consultant%20to%20OSD%20officials%20and%20Marine%20leadership,%20and%20who%20requested%20anonymity%20because%20he%20still%20works%20closely%20with%20the%20military.%20“The%20adversary%20doesn’t%20have%20an%20unlimited%20number%20of%20EFPs,%20IEDs,%20precision%20rockets%20or%20modern%20ATGMs.%20He%20seeks%20a%20good%20chance%20for%20a%20first%20shot%20kill%20in%20an%20ambush%20to%20get%20the%20most%20for%20his%20buck.%20As%20the%20Marines%20deploy%20ashore%20in%20a%20smaller%20number%20of%20high%20value%20targets,%20with%2020%20Marines%20apiece%20inside,%20they%20dramatically%20abet%20the%20enemy’s%20targeting%20problem.%20For%20a%20$1,000%20round,%20he%20gets%20a%20$20%20million%20vehicle%20and%20possibly%2020%20KIAs.%20This%20equation%20needs%20to%20be%20rethought,”%20he%20said. Read%20more:%20http://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/05/04/marines-unveil-efv-gates-takes-aim/#ixzz0nACsKcAW Corps%20shows%20off%20long-delayed%20EFV By%20Amy%20McCullough%20-%20Staff%20writer Posted%20:%20Wednesday%20May%205,%202010%2018:20:43%20EDT

MARINE CORPS BASE QUANTICO, Va. — The Marine Corps celebrated the rollout of the first Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle on Tuesday, one day after Defense Secretary Robert Gates once again raised doubts about the need for the multi-million dollar vehicle.

Despite the renewed criticism, the hundreds of Marines and civilian contractors who showed up to the rollout ceremony at the National Museum of the Marine Corps had high hopes for the EFV, saying it is a “quantum leap forward in technology,” and the start of a new chapter in the Corps’ long and storied expeditionary history.

The EFV, which can travel 23 to 29 miles per hour in high water and just over 40 miles per hour on land, is expected to replace the Corps’ aging amphibious assault vehicles.

Commandant Gen. James Conway has said the EFV, with its 30mm day and night weapons system, and increased survivability against rocket-propelled grenades and improvised explosive devices, is “absolutely and vitally important.” Marines who have operated both vehicles say the EFV, which features an air-conditioned interior, comfortable seats, and plenty of room for grunts and their gear, is a “welcome change.”

The Corps, which hopes to purchase 573 vehicles, will test seven different prototypes. The first was on display at Quantico; the second rolled off the assembly line at the General Dynamics facility in Lima, Ohio, earlier Tuesday; and the third is expected to roll out next week, said Col. Keith Moore, the program manager for advanced amphibious assault.

The prototypes will head to the amphibious vehicle test branch at Camp Pendleton, Calif., for additional testing. The Corps is expected to take possession of the first vehicle in June, and the remaining prototypes will be turned over to the Corps between July and October, officials said.

The EFV has overcome numerous challenges. Widespread technical failures caused the Corps to scrap plans for the vehicle in 2007 and restart the program’s entire development and demonstration phase, a move that cost nearly $1 billion and resulted in hundreds of design changes.

The Corps will put the vehicle and those design changes through 500 hours of rigorous testing beginning this summer and ending in December, and Marine officials are anxiously standing by to see how it performs.

But as the Corps moves forward with its testing, Gates has questioned the military’s need to carry out an amphibious insertion under enemy fire and said it’s time to “take a hard look” at the kind of platform needed for ship-to-shore maneuvers.

William E. Taylor, program executive officer with PEO Land Systems, said program officials need to continue pushing forward despite those concerns.

“This debate is not for the individual to engage in. We need to keep our eye on the ball and focus on that which we can control,” Taylor said. “In the meantime, let’s take a step back and acknowledge, maybe even boast, that collectively we have steadily and incrementally advanced the ball forward.”
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blackdog
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:59 pm
Post subject: Re: "New" EFV Prototype Unveiled at Quantico

It definitely has come a long way.



(pretty sure that the vehicle above is of the same lineage, not sure though)
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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:56 pm
Post subject: Re: "New" EFV Prototype Unveiled at Quantico

There is a lot of discussion about this booger!

defensetech.org/2010/0...#more-7018

www.usni.org/magazines...RY_ID=1648

Looks like the Marines are facing a reevaluation of missions and methods similar to what all the other services are going through to one extent or another.

Chuck

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