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Sherman suspension
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:25 am
Post subject: Sherman suspension

Are the hull mounting points for the HVSS & VVSS suspension units the same?

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

Jim

Here is the hull mounting point on Cobra King with the suspension unit mounting 'face', for reference.



I don't have any comparison photos, onhand. I can check it though on my next work visit to RMP (on Wednesday).

Regards
Don
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 7:42 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

No.

HVSS: Ten holes in rectangular pattern, 12-1/16 from lower edge of hull plate to centerline of upper row. Five equally spaced holes on underside, 11-3/4 overall, center-to-center.

VVSS: Twelve holes in hexagonal pattern, 15-1/16 from lower edge of hull plate to centerline of upper row. Four equally spaced holes on underside, 9 overall, center-to-center.

KL
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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

How thick is the lower hull at the mounting points? One inch? More? Or less?
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tankbarrell
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 1:41 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
How thick is the lower hull at the mounting points? One inch? More? Or less?


1 1/2" on Sherman, 1 1/4" on M10.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:38 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

- Kurt_Laughlin
No.

HVSS: Ten holes in rectangular pattern, 12-1/16 from lower edge of hull plate to centerline of upper row. Five equally spaced holes on underside, 11-3/4 overall, center-to-center.

VVSS: Twelve holes in hexagonal pattern, 15-1/16 from lower edge of hull plate to centerline of upper row. Four equally spaced holes on underside, 9 overall, center-to-center.

KL


does it mean that one can't easily put a VVSS suspension back on a tank which has HVSS?

P-O

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Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:42 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

BTW I'm looking for pictures of the hull mounting points for HVSS tanks, just the same kind of pics than Dontos provided for VVSS.

thanks

P-O

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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

- the_shadock


does it mean that one can't easily put a VVSS suspension back on a tank which has HVSS?

P-O


Correct. It was specifically noted in Ordnance documents that the conversion to HVSS was too difficult to be considered for field modification. It was only done as part of a complete overhaul at a factory or tank depot.

KL
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:05 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

On the topic of VVSS & HVSS. Was there any series of Sherman Tank that had both.

One example that comes to mind is the M4A3E2 (well sorta)

Of course we know the Tank itself always had the VVSS but post war, 3 Jumbos were converted to the T33 Flamethrower Tank testing and those Jumbo hulls were converted to HVSS.

Were there any others known to have started with VVSS & then physically converted to HVSS ?

This might be the best way to compare the two types of suspensions by being able to do an actual side by side comparison.

Just a thought
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Don
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

Series, yes. All the 76mm and 105mm tanks as well as the M4A3(75)W were produced initially in VVSS then HVSS.

If you mean converted, the only ones done by the US were M4A3s. After the war there was a program to create as many M4A3(76) HVSS tanks as possible. So, 76mm VVSS, 75mm HVSS, and 105mm HVSS tanks were converted first, using turrets and suspensions from M4A2(76) and M4A2(76) HVSS. I imagine some 75mm and 105mm VVSS were converted as well.

There are plenty of surviving examples of these converted tanks around, including at Knox. Just look for idler and return roller mounts held on with plug welds rather than bolts. The bogies will also be attached with welds, but sometimes there is a bolt or two in place, probably used to fix it in place for welding and unable to be removed afterward.

Some examples:

picasaweb.google.com/g...1986716514

picasaweb.google.com/g...1752251234

picasaweb.google.com/g...6241531778

As-built HVSS looks like this:

picasaweb.google.com/g...7558297842

picasaweb.google.com/g...3447289218

KL
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:26 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

Thanks Kurt

Being a novice to such details, you helped make it a bunch clearer.

You mentioned a converted VVSS to HVSS at Knox. Which tank? I can do a quick 'drive by' and try to get some detailed shots 'for the record'.

Regards
Don
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:56 am
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

Unfortunately Don, I don't remember!

KL
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 6:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

Kurt

Is the M32 ARV 'the one'?

Found this today:



Regards
Don
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 8:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Sherman suspension

Well, I thought it was a tank, but that's an example of a modified suspension!

KL
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