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A rare WW2 tank is gone..
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:32 am
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

- bialy-r
- Rikard_Hufschmied


It was in very, very bad shape and was something that has been pointed out here and on other forums for years. If it indeed collapsed my guess is that there was not much to salvage. I seem to remember that when discussed a couple of years ago the consensus was pretty much that it was a "goner" already, beyond anything more than a costly stabilizing cosmetic restoration.


It was the only A13 Cruiser Mk III tank in France, they could done more than simply scrap every element of it.


The A13's armor was sheet metal at worst, thinnest of armor at best and this specimen was rusted through and through and with severe cracking in almost every plate which sped up deterioration. But I agree, it's a shame (maybe even a crime).

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TimRoyall
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:33 am
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

Years ago there was a very detailed article about its dicovery and recovery in either Wheels and Tracks magazine or After the Battle. As with most of the "lost tank" stories it was supposed to be a Tiger but if anything as a real veteran of Dunkirk this was even more interesting and special!

My Dad got off the beaches near Dunkirk on the evening of May 30th 1940 (sadly he passed away some years ago) and I was lucky enough to be there on his behalf for the 70th Anniversary recently and had also visited the old tank in the past. Sad to see it go.
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Koluchiy
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:07 am
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

- Rikard_Hufschmied
- Koluchiy
I am remembering plenty of swear words that are always spoken about preservation of historical machines in Russia.

I can only advice to europeans to watch better over their own techniks, because as it is visible the preservation of machines in Europe is far from the dreams.


Let's not start that again. Neglect is, sad to say, universal.


Why not?
Tons of s_h_i_t are flowing out in the address of my country every time when somebody found photos of Saratov' Stug or Snegiri' Tiger (two times in a year).

But for unknown reason the problem of preserving of historical machines in Europe is discussing very seldom.
Vimoutiers' Tiger, Breda' Panther and other tanks that are absolutely rusty, sometimes with sold engines and gearboxes.

Now they have lost a whole tank which had complete hull and turret.

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:56 am
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

The Tiger of Vimoutiers will get a complete cosmetic restoration on next year (hopefully), including preserving/protecting the internal parts and interior, repainting the exterior with a more accurate camo and replacing some of the missing elements (exhaust pipes and protection, side skirts, etc..) with new material.

All of this is currently discussed with the city of Vimoutiers, the Montormel memorial, a local association and the organism that is responsible for the historical monuments in France.

Pierre-Olivier

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chrisballance
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:12 pm
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

It's terrible to lose a veteran A13, but how many people know anything about the RTR tankers that crewed these vehicles in 1940? I have read enough David Fletcher books to know a little about the BEF tanks, but I know very little about the unit histories or the men themselves.

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horrocks
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:32 am
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

- the_shadock
The Tiger of Vimoutiers will get a complete cosmetic restoration on next year (hopefully), including preserving/protecting the internal parts and interior, repainting the exterior with a more accurate camo and replacing some of the missing elements (exhaust pipes and protection, side skirts, etc..) with new material.

All of this is currently discussed with the city of Vimoutiers, the Montormel memorial, a local association and the organism that is responsible for the historical monuments in France.

Pierre-Olivier

That is very good to hear. The Tiger has been a mess for years, and is massively deteriorated and stripped since its recovery in the mid-1970s. Ideally it should go indoors.
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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:46 pm
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

A pity that the A13 has gone for scrap (Surely the gun's been saved?) It did look to be in exceptionally poor condition when I last saw it in July of last year, the armour showed multiple cracks.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:58 pm
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

the next candidate for scrap is most probably this vehicle. Nothing has been done for years, and most probably nothing will be done (it's too expensive..) :

http://the.shadock.free.fr/Tanks_in_France/ft17_boulogne/index.html



P-O

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Taranov
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:58 am
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

Vimoutiers... hehe... i hear rumors about selling this Tiger.
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Hanno_Spoelstra
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:41 am
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

- the_shadock
the next candidate for scrap is most probably this vehicle. Nothing has been done for years, and most probably nothing will be done (it's too expensive..) :


P-O,

What is the history of this FT-17? Could it be a genuine WW1 battle relic presented to Renault?

H.
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:10 am
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

- Hanno_Spoelstra

P-O,

What is the history of this FT-17? Could it be a genuine WW1 battle relic presented to Renault?

H.


Hanno,

I don't know anything about this tank, neither its history, nor if it ever saw any combat. I guess that it is displayed at this place at least since 1919-1920, but it could have been set up there in 1918 already. I really don't know anything yet.

Pierre-Olivier

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Hanno_Spoelstra
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:43 pm
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

- the_shadock
I don't know anything about this tank, neither its history, nor if it ever saw any combat. I guess that it is displayed at this place at least since 1919-1920, but it could have been set up there in 1918 already. I really don't know anything yet.


Pierre-Olivier,

Looks like it was damaged in combat, if there is a (heroic) history, there would be a reason to display it. Hopefully someone will find out more about its history to help secure its future.

Why did you write "the next candidate for scrap is most probably this vehicle"? Is there a genuine reason to fear it will be scrapped?

Thanks,
Hanno
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

- Hanno_Spoelstra

Pierre-Olivier,

Looks like it was damaged in combat, if there is a (heroic) history, there would be a reason to display it. Hopefully someone will find out more about its history to help secure its future.

Why did you write "the next candidate for scrap is most probably this vehicle"? Is there a genuine reason to fear it will be scrapped?

Thanks,
Hanno


Hanno,

AFAIk, a French association already tried to convice Renault that the tank could be restored, adn the company already replied that it was too exensive and unuseful, because of the current condition of the tank (it could not be moved without structural damages).

I've seen photos of this tank some years ago, and the ones I took in 2008 show that the turret is falling into pieces.

The turret armor parts that could collapse are quite heavy. The rear of the turret already collapsed, which damaged the upper engine deck :



If the turret totally collapses, it would probably damage the hull and provoke the tank scrapping, like what happened to the A13 tank at Audinghen.

Pierre-Olivier

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Hanno_Spoelstra
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:03 am
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

- the_shadock
If the turret totally collapses, it would probably damage the hull and provoke the tank scrapping, like what happened to the A13 tank at Audinghen.


Pierre-Olivier,

In that case we can only hope that someone is able to hunt down its history so Renault will realise it is not a pile of scrap iron, and they make sure further detoriation is stopped by either taking care of that themselves or by handing it over to an organsation which can.

Hanno
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Koluchiy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:47 am
Post subject: Re: A rare WW2 tank is gone..

EVERY old object needs in preparing operations before transportation (unfortunately, these operations are providing not often).
This tank can to be transported, but it should to be disassembled or it should to be welded together by temporary scheme...

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