±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 580
Total: 580
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: CPGlang
22: Home
23: Downloads
24: Community Forums
25: CPGlang
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Photo Gallery
38: Home
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Member Screenshots
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Your Account
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Downloads
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Downloads
93: CPGlang
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Downloads
98: Home
99: Home
100: Home
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: CPGlang
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: CPGlang
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Photo Gallery
111: Photo Gallery
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Photo Gallery
117: News
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Your Account
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Downloads
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: CPGlang
136: Community Forums
137: News Archive
138: Photo Gallery
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: Downloads
154: Member Screenshots
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Downloads
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: Downloads
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Photo Gallery
189: Your Account
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Member Screenshots
210: Home
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Downloads
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Photo Gallery
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Home
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Member Screenshots
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: CPGlang
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Member Screenshots
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Photo Gallery
278: Home
279: News
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Home
286: Photo Gallery
287: Photo Gallery
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Home
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Home
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Home
308: Community Forums
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Your Account
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Member Screenshots
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Member Screenshots
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Photo Gallery
329: Community Forums
330: Your Account
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Photo Gallery
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Downloads
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Your Account
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Photo Gallery
357: Home
358: Photo Gallery
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Photo Gallery
365: Member Screenshots
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Home
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: News
372: CPGlang
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Your Account
376: Home
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Photo Gallery
381: Photo Gallery
382: Member Screenshots
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Community Forums
396: CPGlang
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Home
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Home
409: Photo Gallery
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Photo Gallery
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Home
428: Community Forums
429: Downloads
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Home
434: Home
435: Photo Gallery
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Photo Gallery
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Member Screenshots
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Your Account
451: Home
452: Home
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Photo Gallery
463: Photo Gallery
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Photo Gallery
472: Photo Gallery
473: Community Forums
474: Home
475: Community Forums
476: Photo Gallery
477: Statistics
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Your Account
489: Photo Gallery
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Community Forums
494: Member Screenshots
495: News
496: Community Forums
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: News
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Downloads
505: Community Forums
506: Member Screenshots
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Home
516: Home
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Downloads
520: Community Forums
521: Home
522: Photo Gallery
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Photo Gallery
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: Home
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Home
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Community Forums
547: Downloads
548: Community Forums
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Photo Gallery
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Photo Gallery
556: Home
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Photo Gallery
560: Photo Gallery
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Member Screenshots
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Photo Gallery
567: CPGlang
568: Photo Gallery
569: Community Forums
570: Photo Gallery
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Member Screenshots
574: Home
575: Community Forums
576: Downloads
577: Downloads
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
OT - Grid system in use during Vietnam war
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:52 pm
Post subject: Re: OT - Grid system in use during Vietnam war

There was also a lot of former Dutch Waffen SS serving in the Netherlands Indies after the war. Some veterans have a double set of medals, a German one from service on the Eastern front and a set of fighting the so called (in that time) ''peloppers'' in the Netherlands Indies. Once spoke to some who were at the Eastern front and then the jungles of Indonesia. Interesting stories and different times...
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: OT - Grid system in use during Vietnam war

I had a look at the DLA map catalog for series L7014 TLM50 sheets of Vietnam. Most are editions 1,2 and 3. Considering the production effort, it looks like DMA issued the sheets on the last day of the month, running between 1963 and 1973. One sheet is 1976, and the remaining dates are in the '80's.

TLM50 sheets conform to the NATO specification MGRS grid reference with a 1000m grid and a two-letter 100,000m grid zone designator. What still needs clarification is what is the grid and projection?

Doug, when you look at the surround, what is the datum and projection?
Back to top
View user's profile
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:21 am
Post subject: Re: OT - Grid system in use during Vietnam war

- TrevorLarkum
- L.Delsing
In one of the museums there were Kar 98 rifles with waffen ambt markings which were supplied by the USSR and used by the Vietnamese in the war over there.
Regards,
Lesley


That's interesting - I remember being surprised when I read up on the large numbers of ex-Wehrmacht who served in Indo-china for the French.


Hi,

My dad has two of them on the wall at home. One is in fabulous condition (considering the Germany-USSR-North Vietnam-Ho Chi Minh Trail-Tay Ninh path it took) and was taken from a cache near Tay Ninh. The second is in worse condition, having apparently been used by the VC for some time. My Dad traded a modified M16 to a ROK Ranger buddy, who had obtained it when he divided the former owner by 40mm. Both came home in a footlocker (oh, how times have changed!) in 1970. Both still work, although the headspace is really iffy and one badly shows the effects of years of corrosive ammo.

Chuck

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:20 am
Post subject: Re: OT - Grid system in use during Vietnam war

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
I had a look at the DLA map catalog for series L7014 TLM50 sheets of Vietnam. Most are editions 1,2 and 3. Considering the production effort, it looks like DMA issued the sheets on the last day of the month, running between 1963 and 1973. One sheet is 1976, and the remaining dates are in the '80's.

TLM50 sheets conform to the NATO specification MGRS grid reference with a 1000m grid and a two-letter 100,000m grid zone designator. What still needs clarification is what is the grid and projection?

Doug, when you look at the surround, what is the datum and projection?


The 1:250,000 JOG is a transverse mercator and I only have the sheets cobbled together from the sixteenth-to-seventh parallels. I have a full border copied and pasted but no datum is given, only projection. Year is 1972.

I only have sheets for our AO in MRI (most of it) in 1:50,000 and have only assembled a fifteen minute "box" centered just below Hue because on 8.5x11" sheets, that's all that's accommodated by the biggest frame that is economical to buy "off the rack". I have 81 similar sheets in jpg format for the region, but not the margins like for the JOG map.

Likewise, I have a much smaller area for MRIII in 1:100,000, about 25km square and no margin data. Just an immediate AO from about Tay Ninh east to Bien Hoa. Much less complete than the "I"Corps maps.

Both of the above are from scans sent me by sources that prefer not to be identified. Would but that I had the originals, but "I" corps in 50K would be enough to paper two walls with. Rolling Eyes

Thankfully, there is sufficient data on some sheets that I can find coordinates or extrapolate to approximate areas from sheet-to-sheet. I have only printed out those areas most important to me on five framed maps. Everything else I resign myself to viewing electronically (which I can at least magnify as the scans are of good quality).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:54 am
Post subject: Re: OT - Grid system in use during Vietnam war

- TrevorLarkum
- L.Delsing
In one of the museums there were Kar 98 rifles with waffen ambt markings which were supplied by the USSR and used by the Vietnamese in the war over there.
Regards,
Lesley


That's interesting - I remember being surprised when I read up on the large numbers of ex-Wehrmacht who served in Indo-china for the French.


And don't forget the Panther tanks that were used there also Rolling Eyes Although I am sure that there were a fair number of ex Wehrmact and even some ex Waffen SS who fought in indochina I believe the numbers and role have been overstated in several popular 'histories'. Weapons yeas, they show up on second and third hand markets for years but if you believe some of the books that came out there were entire SS battalions employed in Indochina and they would have won the war if it hadn't been for the incompetency of the French high command

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:48 pm
Post subject: Re: OT - Grid system in use during Vietnam war

- bsmart

And don't forget the Panther tanks that were used there also :roll: Although I am sure that there were a fair number of ex Wehrmact and even some ex Waffen SS who fought in indochina I believe the numbers and role have been overstated in several popular 'histories'. Weapons yeas, they show up on second and third hand markets for years but if you believe some of the books that came out there were entire SS battalions employed in Indochina and they would have won the war if it hadn't been for the incompetency of the French high command


Understood, but the book I was reading was Martin Windrow's epic (700 page) 'The Last Valley' about Dien Bien Phu. On page 198 he writes:

"Legion infantry had a reputation as slightly ponderous but rock-solid troops: ... The belief that their ranks were largely filled with German ex-Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS veterans recruited straight from French prison camps with few questions asked lent them a sinister glamour in the eyes of journalists. This legend had been more credible in 1945-50, but by 1953 [just before Dien Bien Phu] the majority of the original post-war enlistees had departed after serving their five-year contracts, and it was only among senior NCOs that Wehrmacht veterans were found in any concentrated numbers - though these very capable soldiers certainly underpinned the overall quality of many units. Perhaps 50 per cent of the legionnaires in Indochina were still
Germans, but their average age was only 20-23, and Legion commanders often lamented the lack of military experience, training, and even of physical fitness among the later intakes.
"The remainder were of dozens of other nationalities, the Legion tried to limit the proportion of Frenchmen in any unit to perhaps 10 per cent..."

I highly recommend the book, and to anyone who doesn't know the story of Dien Bien Phu it's a heroic, exciting but ultimately tragic tale. The highlight from our point of view would of course be the unique event of M24 'Bison' tanks being flown in to the airstrip and being assembled by hand resulting in the appearance of a significant tank force in the middle of nowhere. The low point being the eventual surrender of the majority of the French force and the withdrawal of part of the garrison all the way back to the border on foot, and losing the majority en route.



Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...n_Bien_Phu

A number of the Chaffees are still there, left in situ.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:59 pm
Post subject: Re: OT - Grid system in use during Vietnam war

- TrevorLarkum

"Perhaps 50 per cent of the legionnaires in Indochina were still
Germans, but their average age was only 20-23, and Legion commanders often lamented the lack of military experience, training, and even of physical fitness among the later intakes."


I'm guessing employment opportunities back in the fatherland were still not all that encouraging 8-9 years post-war.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:12 pm
Post subject: Re: OT - Grid system in use during Vietnam war

Exactly my thought. Of course many of the original intakes would have become soldiers straight from school, with no trade to fall back on. Soldiering was all they knew.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dennis_Smith
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2006
Posts: 192

PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: OT - Grid system in use during Vietnam war

Sorry to bring back such an old thread, but I saw this book on Amazon and it reminded me of this thread.

It explains the map grid system in use during the Vietnam war. The book includes a number of 1:50,000 maps of Vietnam and directions on where to acquire others.

Where We Were in Vietnam

I linked to the Kindle version because it has the best "Look Inside" preview. Hardcover book version is also available.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:00 pm
Post subject: Re: OT - Grid system in use during Vietnam war

Hi Folks!

- TrevorLarkum
- L.Delsing
In one of the museums there were Kar 98 rifles with waffen ambt markings which were supplied by the USSR and used by the Vietnamese in the war over there.
Regards,
Lesley


That's interesting - I remember being surprised when I read up on the large numbers of ex-Wehrmacht who served in Indo-china for the French.


I remember reading something a very long time ago about the ex-Wehrmacht in French service. They were WWII POWs of the French and where drafted into the French Army. It was a form of get out of jail option.

Sgt Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum