±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 549
Total: 549
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: CPGlang
16: Home
17: Downloads
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Photo Gallery
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Photo Gallery
48: Your Account
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Member Screenshots
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Photo Gallery
59: CPGlang
60: News
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Your Account
68: Photo Gallery
69: CPGlang
70: Downloads
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Home
74: Photo Gallery
75: Home
76: Home
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: CPGlang
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: CPGlang
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Photo Gallery
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Photo Gallery
90: Community Forums
91: Photo Gallery
92: Photo Gallery
93: News
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Your Account
100: Community Forums
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: Downloads
110: Photo Gallery
111: Photo Gallery
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Downloads
117: Downloads
118: Downloads
119: Photo Gallery
120: Home
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Photo Gallery
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Downloads
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Member Screenshots
139: Photo Gallery
140: Downloads
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: CPGlang
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Photo Gallery
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Your Account
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Your Account
180: Photo Gallery
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Downloads
188: Photo Gallery
189: Photo Gallery
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Photo Gallery
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Home
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Home
229: Photo Gallery
230: Downloads
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: CPGlang
238: CPGlang
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Downloads
242: Your Account
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: CPGlang
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Home
252: CPGlang
253: Member Screenshots
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Home
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Photo Gallery
288: Downloads
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Photo Gallery
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Member Screenshots
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Member Screenshots
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Community Forums
305: Your Account
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Photo Gallery
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Downloads
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Your Account
327: Photo Gallery
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Member Screenshots
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: Home
334: News
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Member Screenshots
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: News
346: CPGlang
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Your Account
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Photo Gallery
355: Photo Gallery
356: Member Screenshots
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Photo Gallery
362: Member Screenshots
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Photo Gallery
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: CPGlang
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Home
377: Community Forums
378: Photo Gallery
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Photo Gallery
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Downloads
389: Photo Gallery
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Home
399: Community Forums
400: Downloads
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Home
405: Home
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Photo Gallery
420: Member Screenshots
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Photo Gallery
434: Photo Gallery
435: CPGlang
436: Photo Gallery
437: CPGlang
438: Downloads
439: Home
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Statistics
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Your Account
457: Photo Gallery
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Home
461: Member Screenshots
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: CPGlang
465: Home
466: Photo Gallery
467: Photo Gallery
468: Community Forums
469: News
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Photo Gallery
474: Downloads
475: Community Forums
476: Member Screenshots
477: Photo Gallery
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Photo Gallery
485: Home
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Statistics
493: Home
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Photo Gallery
506: Community Forums
507: Home
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Photo Gallery
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Photo Gallery
515: Community Forums
516: Downloads
517: Community Forums
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Photo Gallery
529: Photo Gallery
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Member Screenshots
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: CPGlang
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Photo Gallery
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Member Screenshots
543: Home
544: Community Forums
545: Downloads
546: Downloads
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:03 am
Post subject: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

Maybe just a little... But a 1/3 reduction in estimated cost, now to come from private funds rather than public... And a slightly smaller footprint.

According to the changedetection.com log 68.166.223.4/comparecache.html of www.armorcavalrymuseum.../Plan.html the following has changed:

Dimensions:
Was - 106,000 Sq. Ft. plus expansion and separate Maintenance Facility
Now - ~100,000 Sq. Ft.

Estimated Cost:
Was - $75,000,000
Now - $50,000,000

Source of Funds:
Was - Public Funds
Now - Private Funds (hmm... wonder what happened to the FY11 MILCON?)

This was the plan back in March
www.ledger-enquirer.co...useum.html

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

Shocked. Just shocked.

I seem to recall that I wasn't the only one here who was skeptical about their plans, some time back. I'm sad to discover that we were right. I recognize that I'm very cynical about stuff like this, but I always hold onto a glimmer of hope that I might be wrong.

Wait for it. There will be more cuts, the schedule with slip to the right...and what eventually is built will be a far cry from what was advertised. And more vehicles will be left in storage, probably in less desirable conditions than they were in previously. Typical empire-building and "my toys" behavior from otherwise grown-up government functionaries.

Chuck

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled

I shocked, I tell you....shocked!.

We're going to be relying on members' photographic records for some time to come.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

Was there any point to this move? Other than to burn up tax dollars...

"And more vehicles will be left in storage, probably in less desirable conditions than they were in previously."
Is this possible? Leaving then in a field with open hatches for 65 years is pretty bad.


Last edited by armyjunk2 on Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

- armyjunk2
Was there any point to this move? Other than to burn up tax dollars...

The schools were moved under BRAC. Ownership of the school artifacts (meaning, their museums) follow the school, and the schools will not be denied their toys, even if they aren't in a position to share with the other children.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

i knew that but still a waste, they have money to burn....
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled

Rolling Eyes well, old and historical artifacts are not that precious... we could still find another survivor elsewhere for a particular model, even if the tank itself is unique.

Let's say, for example, there are many other T6 Shermans with spigot mortars in swamps and bogs in Russia...

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled

...and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a T5, Phase I anymore.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

Most of you know how I feel, so I won't go into a heated venting session, since at this point it would serve no purpose.

The truth is nobody 'in a position to do anything' really cares. After all there really is no Armor Center anymore. The Senior officials sold out for the 'party line' long ago to ensure promotion. No real pride, just 'lipservice'.....

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

- armyjunk2
Was there any point to this move? Other than to burn up tax dollars...

"And more vehicles will be left in storage, probably in less desirable conditions than they were in previously."
Is this possible? Leaving then in a field with open hatches for 65 years is pretty bad.


Ahem.

"Typical empire-building and "my toys" behavior from otherwise grown-up government functionaries."

Government in the US is rapidly becoming so venal and self-serving as to be functionally unrecognizable from communist and socialist autocracies. More than ever, government is being used to fulfill the petty ambitions and tyrant-fantasies of senior government employees. The old "government as public service" paradigm has faded, and "position as a means of gaining unrestrained bureaucratic power" has become the norm at every level from local to Federal.

The point of my cynical rant is the the vehicles were moved because some government officials perceived a means by which they could retain or gain additional power (usually in the form of additional money) by moving them. Patronage is also a powerful force, and someone had to be paid to move them, to construct the new location (such as it is), etc. The vehicles are moving because someone saw a personal benefit and could wrap it in an official justification.

Evidence? How about the fact that the vehicles are moving from an existing facility (with a local support structure and volunteer curators) to a new location that has no existing facility to accommodate the artifacts. This, instead of waiting for the new facility to be constructed and ready. Thus the artifacts are effectively held as hostages used to negotiate the release of additional funds for construction at the new location. And if they deteriorate in the time needed to obtain funds and complete construction? Well, these are just the unavoidable casualties of self-advancement in the 'service' of the US government.

/rant

Chuck

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

I have seen the storage lot at Sand Hill, Fort Benning,

It is not good, in fact down right disheartening. I hope my contact can alleviate a little of the the deterioration of the AFVs there. Really sad state of affairs.

_________________
Joe_D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:19 am
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

whole deal S**KS for both the museums, somebody needs to follow the money trail here and find out whose pockets got lined. never made it to Knox, but I got to Aberdeen about 10 times and I got my slides and my memories

_________________
The only good skwerril is a dead un
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:27 am
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

- piney
whole deal S**KS for both the museums, somebody needs to follow the money trail here and find out whose pockets got lined. never made it to Knox, but I got to Aberdeen about 10 times and I got my slides and my memories


And you've got this great community of people who collectively have been pretty much everywhere and are demonstrably good about sharing. It's what this forum is all about, when you get right down to it.

Might not be the same thing as crawling all over a particular exhibit yourself, but it's very likely that someone here with the same perspective has. And more than likely, he took pictures. I've never seen anyone denied use of pictures among this community when someone first asked.

With the passing of these two museums into dormancy, the best resource we now have for recent info regarding vehicles in these collections is each other. That's what we're all about, anyway.


<Moderator and forum advocate mode off>
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:33 am
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled back

Unfortunately I think the real casualties of this all this, besides the vehicles are the generations of veterans & their families.

On a daily basis, visitors include the aging veterans who stop to experience perhaps that one last time, a glimpse of their past. They openly share those experiences with family who can't really appreciate the storys, but when visiting the museum, they see the vehicle and installation where 'Dad,'Grand Pa', or 'Great Grand Pa' spent his youth to prepare before going off to Europe or Asia.

The sight of the period vehicles, being able to touch them, helps to bring it all back.

I've seen & heard many of those 'rememberances' and each one helps to reenforce why I enjoy being a volunteer. Its not about me, but those who served long before me.

Hopefully the new facility will become a reality to continue to 'preserve & tell the story'.

Personally I don't know of any veteran tankers who in their right mind would ever consider visiting Ft Benning (!?) to experience their Armor History past because there is no association to that installation.

The 'new' generation of tankers will establish that with their service but its ashame that all this BRAC stuff will be lost upon the aging vets who have no association to Ft Benning,.....AND I AM ONE OF THEM.

Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Looks like the Armor and Cavalry Museum is being scaled

What Don said.

The collection is important, we all appreciate it. However, for actual U.S. Armor veterans, the place is at least as, if not more, important to the legacy of their memories of service in that branch.

I do not picture any Armor veterans going to Ft. Benning to get in touch with their history, unless that history includes a past assignment there.

It's true the schools and the collections do not exist for the sole purpose of providing venues for reminiscences of old soldiers, but those facilities with extensive histories and and almost exclusive link to a particular branch (say a Ft. Sill to Arty, by way of example) not to mention an already existing infrastructure for display and cadre of dedicated personnel who have and continue to be willing to perform steady and dedicated service to preserving the past should not be sacrificed so readily in the name of power or precedence. To do so is an enormous dis-service to the tradition and legacy of service that they exist to preserve.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum