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Michel_Krauss

Hi P-O

according the info I recieved from Lesley it would have serial number 15499, however this maybe wrong because of the following

According the Sherman Register serial numbers for the M4A4 should be in the ranges
4805 - 6204, 16555 - 20554, 20555 - 23904
web.inter.nl.net/users...serial.htm

There is no further information of the origins of this Sherman

Michel

the_shadock · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:48 am Post subject: Re: The Netherlands AFV Registers

just a quick question :

how early is this M4A4??

http://news.webshots.com/photo/2606295210100192038Lyadyl

I think that it belongs to the first batch of M4A4s built by Chrysler (from SN 4805 to SN 6204), and that it never got additional armour...

P-O

the_shadock · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: Re: The Netherlands AFV Registers

- Michel_Krauss

Hi Trevor,

and finaly here, an picture posted 4 september 2009
famigliapesce.blogspot...erman.html

Michel

In a perfect world where everything would be possible, I would like to buy or get this one and give an anonymous M4A4 against, to be displayed in Italy... And then repaint this M4 as "Cookie" and find a place around Overloon to dispay it back on its original battle ground.
What the Overloon museum did with this tank was a major mistake..

P-O

Michel_Krauss · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:29 am Post subject: Re: The Netherlands AFV Registers

Hi folks,

found some more picture's of Cookie
They are from the Dutch Nationaal Archief (Nationale Archives)
beeldbank.nationaalarchief.nl/en

The oldest 2 picture are from 1945 and show's Cookie with the turret facing 6'clock
beeldbank.nationaalarc...:dat244010

picture from the other site
it appears that there has been an lady painted to the site between the 2 piece of additional welded on armour plate
beeldbank.nationaalarc...l1:dat6191

Last one from 27-05-1946
It show's Cookie with the Sherman Crab, that is still at Overloon
beeldbank.nationaalarc...l1:dat6194

Printed (low res) copies of the picture's are only allowed to be used for personal, non-commercial use!!
Everything else is copyright protected!!

Marco,
good find "Het Geheugen van Nederland"
I did not know that site Mr. Green

Michel

MarcoH

Trevor,

Sorry about that, won’t happen again.
I checked the copyright section from the website.
Amongst other things it says:
“It is only allowed to reproduce text or digital images when this isn’t done with a commercial intention”.

But to be safe, I’ll mention the website where to find the photo.
The website is : www.geheugenvannederla...l/homepage

When you use the search key “overloon” you’ll find the photo.

Marco

Michel_Krauss

Hi Trevor,

I have been searching an little and found the following site
www.ww2talk.com/forum/...erman.html

There are some picture's of Cookie and they where posted 27-05-2008

It appears Cookie has moved away from the monument in Ortona to somewhere on the outside of town....

also movie at youtube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uexedpv7IX0

also here
commons.wikimedia.org/...Boe%29.jpg

and finaly here, an picture posted 4 september 2009
famigliapesce.blogspot...erman.html

Sad

Michel

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: The Netherlands AFV Registers

- Michel_Krauss

Concerning picture's of Cookie, can not help you there
I do not any picture's if it, it was sold to Italy approx october 2006 or even earlier

Michel

Ok, thanks anyway.

- MarcoH

Hello Michel and Massimo,

In a Dutch photo-database I found this photo from Cookie.
The photo is dated 1946.

With best regards,

Marco Hogenkamp

Marco - that's a great picture! However, do you know what the copyright situation is with it? I'm very careful with copyright on anything I publish online or in books, but I would love to use it.

MarcoH · Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: The Netherlands AFV Registers

Hello Michel and Massimo,

In a Dutch photo-database I found this photo from Cookie.
The photo is dated 1946.

With best regards,

Marco Hogenkamp

Michel_Krauss · Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: The Netherlands AFV Registers

Hi Trevor

you're right, the link goes to the wrong one
It is going to "After Hitler" that is stored inside the museum now

I tried it before posting it, and it went to Cookie... Confused

(the internet leads in misterious ways)

Concerning picture's of Cookie, can not help you there
I do not any picture's if it, it was sold to Italy approx october 2006 or even earlier

Michel

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: The Netherlands AFV Registers

- Michel_Krauss

Cookie still at home in Overloon :( :(
www.nahverteidigungswa.../M4-13.htm

Michel

Michel - that link goes to the 'other' M4 that was at Overloon, not Cookie. Trying it myself I think there is a problem with getting correct links from that site, so I've done this one by hand for Cookie:

www.nahverteidigungswa.../M4-14.htm

Anyway, I've added my old photos of Cookie from 1982, and I'll love to post some between 1982 and 2008 so if you, or anyone else, has more recent ones please get in touch to give a complete record of this unique vehicle:

Cookie

Massimo_Foti

Cookie is an type of Sherman that the Canadians did not use during the Italy campaign

I know. I was aware of that.

Michel_Krauss

At least the Overloon Museum got some good money out of it...

It is even worse then that

Because of the post it got all stirred up again
So I did some research on it

When the British army was still based in Germany (British army of the Rhine) some of it's military personel offered to restore an part of the collection of Overloon for free
(That is before vehicle's of other museum's moved there)

Among them was Cookie

Cookie was an tank of the US 7th Armoured division and was abandoned during the battle of Overloon
After the war it remained on the battle and was part of the original museum.

There are more arguments against the selling, apart that Cookie was not an Canadian but an US Sherman
- Cookie is an type of Sherman that the Canadians did not use during the Italy campaign
The Canadians used M4A4 Sherman's in Italy
- it used to be: is an rare version, in the original colors, on the original battle field

Cookie still at home in Overloon Sad

www.nahverteidigungswa.../M4-13.htm

Michel

Massimo_Foti

And the opinions about that fact where not all positive
In an matter of fact, I did not hear any positive reaction about it

I totally agree.

On top of the arguments you listed, the tank is now going to be exposed to weather and vandalism Sad

At least the Overloon Museum got some good money out of it... Unlike Morges Museum with its G-13 Rolling Eyes

Massimo

Michel_Krauss

Hi Massimo,

the fact that "Cookie" went to Italy is well known in the inner circle of AFV enthusiasts in Holland Sad

And the opinions about that fact where not all positive
In an matter of fact, I did not hear any positive reaction about it

The biggest argument against it was, that Cookie was not used in Italy
Another argument against it was that Sherman's are not an very rare type of tank

The society that bought Cookie, just wanted an 75mm Sherman for the monument

I think that there are enough other 75mm Shermans hanging around that no one would have missed

These things happen, unfortunately Sad