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Military Flights :: Archived
Discussions about the FS2004 game.
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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:13 am
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

Stoop, check the small barracks roofs in another light or angle. They are a corrugated reflective metal that looks almost white from some angles. The hangar I'm not so sure about.....

I asked that you check the 8th RRU base up close (with the antennae) because after I put in some of Al's buildings there, some of the other building textures were really tardy to show up in an overflight...one may interfere with the other. If so, I'll have to delete something from that addition or find the culprit.

Chu Lai is quite a bit further south down the coast from Da Nang even, and for sure a fixed wing mission if you're going to work "I" Corps north. It's on the aeronautical maps I sent, but a long haul. If going to the western mountains of "I" Corps north, Da Nang is the northernmost base to fly from, and even that's stretching it in rotory wing.

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JG300-Stoopy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:05 am
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

Roger, Wingnut, thanks!

Consider yourself a BETA tester for the Fr8ycat's newest version of the Loach then, once he gives the installer a quick look for his approval....we were hoping you'd volunteer since you tested the last two.

Do you have links or filenames for any of that stuff at simviation?

Chu Lai looks good but for this mission "package" I don't believe we are planning to visit it - although it can certainly be put to use in the future. Ascout probably hit the nail on the head with it being due to dissimilar terrain mesh's in use. Hmmm.

Ascout, also I downloaded the fresh Phu Bai Redux, and I don't have roof textures on that hangar and many of the small barracks. I wonder if you might be able to recognize the BMP file by browsing the texture folder?

Here's what I have - the original Phu Bai folder is still present but disabled and "deleted" form the FS9 scenery library menu. I can try killing it altogether later to see if that changes anything.


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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

- RCAF_Wingnut
Stoopy, I am interested in the test of the scout OH-6, and I have that scenery mesh already installed. I also have Al's Chu Lai base that you have been showing though it's probably an older version. I did notice two small errors. LZ Chippewa had some gun bunkers in mid-air, and there is an antenna in mid-air I believe at LZ Bludgeon or LZ hill 410. I have a Bell AH-1S Cobra with army paint that might be usable, though its not from that time frame. I came in to replace the AH-1a Cobra. The major difference is the chin guns. This one has the 5 long barrelled mini-gun, and the model 1a had a short barrelled gun and a grenade launcher on the chin. I haven't seen a model 1a in freeware. As Ascout pointed out the 2002 version is missing rotor textures. I've also looked around and Simviation has a large collection of Vietnam and Thailand airfields to play with in their scenery pages. Check them out.


Al Simms mentioned to me that he is using a payware version of mesh for the area (he may have designed his scenery with it's use in mind), not the freeware one that Stoopy and I use...this may, or may not, account for the floating items you mention. Terrain altitude discrepancies can account for this phenomenon from my own 'experiments'. Phu Bai has a slight one from stock to freeware mesh, but the difference is only a few feet and can only be seen as a slight rise in the hill surrounding the runway and occasionally, some fading roadway surfaces when you fly in the "right" spot. No floating structures or surfaces, though.

This is what makes it tough to do the firebases and Khe Sanh itself...west of Camp Eagle, it gets hilly right quick.

That AH-1S also has a funny external sight or something on the cockpit side that I find distracting.

Those Royal Thai airfields are nice, highly detailed...I use about three of them....Nakhon Phanom is a nice short hop from "I" Corps in fixed wing...I usually use an A-26 for that.

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Last edited by JG300-Ascout on Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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RCAF_Wingnut
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

Stoopy, I am interested in the test of the scout OH-6, and I have that scenery mesh already installed. I also have Al's Chu Lai base that you have been showing though it's probably an older version. I did notice two small errors. LZ Chippewa had some gun bunkers in mid-air, and there is an antenna in mid-air I believe at LZ Bludgeon or LZ hill 410. I have a Bell AH-1S Cobra with army paint that might be usable, though its not from that time frame. I came in to replace the AH-1a Cobra. The major difference is the chin guns. This one has the 5 long barrelled mini-gun, and the model 1a had a short barrelled gun and a grenade launcher on the chin. I haven't seen a model 1a in freeware. As Ascout pointed out the 2002 version is missing rotor textures. I've also looked around and Simviation has a large collection of Vietnam and Thailand airfields to play with in their scenery pages. Check them out.

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Uhu_Fledermaus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

Great stuff fella's !


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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

Stoopy,
I'm mystified about your hangar appearance...this is how it looks to me...after each export of the scenery, too. Must be a confused tex file somehow...

ALSO...there is a new Phu_Bai_Redux in the JG300 Hidey-hole...download and check it out with mesh on and off, please. Note textures over at the ASA place...do all appear? (it's the place with the big antennae).


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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

Heck yeah...this mission(s) is open to anybody with the "right stuff" (just keep in mind that I didn't install that chapel just so the choir would have a place to practice).

This series of missions can accomodate from 2-3 up to infinity depending on the leg and interest. Room for several types (again depending which leg it is).

All we ask is for the same serious committment and attitude as the Sunday Flights seeks. And remember...we never leave a man behind.

And me....well I'm just blabby and do enough little odds-and-end work to ride the coattails of these two greats....


Bullfeathers....Stoopy is the only guy with one foot in the Tactical Operations Center AND in the cockpit! Wink

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JG300-Stoopy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

- RAF92_BattleHawk
What mesh? I'm really interested in this so mabey one on ya could tell me!


Sorry Battlehawk, missed your post....here's the answer.....

There is an add-on terrain mesh (terrain mapping) for South East Asia (SEA) that brings the Vietnamese countryside to LIFE.....the deep valleys and dramatic peaks, as opposed to the somewhat mild terrain that default FS9 gives us.

That mesh terrain add-on is available from Avsim (search for SEA terrain Mesh or Vietnam terrain mesh). We'll also package it in an EZ-installer for this exercise.

You don't NEED it to fly this mission when we're done getting it all ready and packaged, but it defiinitely enhances the experience of flying in this part of the world.

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JG300-Stoopy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

Hi Wingnut,

By all means you and anyone else are more than welcome to join the fun, please please please!

I hope it doesn't sound like anyone's being excluded or that it's a JG300 takeover....that would be a GROSS misunderstanding and I hope you don't have that impression!

The reason you see so many smelly Sau's in this conversation is simple.....we're a talkative, gregarious bunch really, plus Ascout has both the history behind it (having served and all) and has been perfecting some dedicated sceneries for YEARS.....literally.....plus the authentic maps and mission data, and the idea are his submission from long ago...this has been a long-term idea that's been percolating and is about to come to fruition. We are very excited and motivated about this and hope that all Com-C members (Transload and Hovercontrol members also, whoever has a good steady hand on the stick and the interest) take part when its ready.

Fr8ycat does the helo work as you know and his father also served there. His OH-6A was just redone in a U.S. Army Scout version and we'll be looking for BETA testers for it...interested?

And me....well I'm just blabby and do enough little odds-and-end work to ride the coattails of these two greats....

Believe me.....the end product will be a multiplayer online mission that will take advantage of all who want to be a part....and the more the merrier!!!!

We'll need both good fixed-wing pilots and rotary-wing pilots....you're definitely included in both categories and the latter would be a slot I'd encourage any of us rotorheads to take to allow room for the fixed-wing guys to fly the Sandy's.

We do have a laundry list of items to cross off the list as this builds but it's getting shorter and shorter, we're getting very close, is there any particular part you'd like to assist with?

Thanks!

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Last edited by JG300-Stoopy on Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:00 pm; edited 3 times in total
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RCAF_Wingnut
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

Hey guys, there are more than just JG300 guys interested here. I've been reading the posts and want to join in the fun.

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JG300-Stoopy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

I believe so! This is essentially based on the white lines drawn on the large (green) area map you provided long ago, and it follows that pretty well....so it's a good job of estimating!

In multiplayer there are bound to be some variables - I think the helo flight will make better time, and the AI flew the pants of that Skyraider, about 20 knots higher than I cruise with it - so it may work out even better!

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JG300-Ascout
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

Did my original estimated flight times work out to be more-or-less correct? I didn't test 'em in simulation.

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JG300-Stoopy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

Awwright, Gentlemen.....

Ascout, Fr8ycat (if you got the info from Ascout).....if you look in the JG300 FTP server, you will find a folder called "Vietnam" and in it, a ZIP file called CC_AsiaMilBGLstuff.zip.

In that ZIP file you will find an add-on scenery folder, an effects folder, and a Flightplan folder. Contents of those folders go into the FS9 directory in their respective places so named (sorry no installer yet, but of course there will be).

Hangman, I will send you a PM with the HTTP URL to download this so you can check it out too.

What you should find, if the Com-C Milflight add-on scenery is copied over and enabled, and the effects are copied to the effects folder, are new waypoints in Vietnam for several locations - Khe Sanh, FSB Birminghamm, Camp Eagle, A Shau Valley, Roung Roung Valley, and also the Ingress points for those two valleys (all taken as exactly as I could from the original maps Ascout provided). You will also see some effects....A Shau and Roung Roung Valley LZ's are marked with a pink smoke canister which you should see from a few miles out. Khe Sanh is having some trouble with sappers and you'll find a couble of fires with black smoke, and also two areas on a hill marked by the FAC with Willy Pete for the attention of inbound air support.

This is all "prototype" and may need polishing so that's why it's a good time to get more eyes on it.

As for the flight plans: There are two, one for fixed wing (A1D Skyraiders) and another for Rotary-wing (UH-1 and OH-6's). The Sandys depart Da Nang and head straight for the Roung Roung Valley Ingress point....the scout/landing task force in rotary winged craft depart Phu Bai and head for the same location. Tests I've run with AI planes using these flight plans show they should arrive wthin a minute or two and a within a few miles of each other.

Both flights proceed to the LZ in Ruong Ruong Valley just over the ridge. After making sure the LZ is safe, the Sandy's head North to offer assistance at Khe Sanh....the Helos return to Phu Bai for drop-off/pickup for their second flight.

At about the time the helo's reach Phu Bai, the Sandy's will be at Khe Sanh ready to expend ordinance if needed. Both flights should be able to easily reach and then continue from these waypoints next for the A Shau Valley Ingress point at the same time. They will thus meet up again (the miles and speeds work out pretty well) as both flights merge at he A Shau Valley Ingress waypoint, and continue into A Shau Valley to the LZ. The A1D's cover the helos for a quick stop, and all fly back safe and sound to Phu Bai to land together, provided the Sandy's slow up a little and provide air cover for the helos.

Here's some shots of how it works using a single AI Skyraider flying an assigned flight plan to simulate the multiplayer fixed-wing element...since I had to do this on my laptop with no joystick, and wanted few variables in flight, I used a fixed-wing on autopilot to fly the seperate helo flight plane (A Cessna 172 to apprximate the airspeed of the subject helo's...please forgive me!)

Main window shows the C-172, upper right shows the Skyraider AI plane on it's flight plan, bottom right GPS shows waypoints and progress for the helo flight only, bottom center is a top-down view so I could verify smoke markers, bottom left window is the MS Traffic Tools utility to show AI flight traffic on a radar-type display:

Arriving at ingress point at Ruong Ruong Valley... the Skyraider crosses the ingress waypoint first and comes back around to head into the LZ first to check for bad guys.....the pink smoke canister marking the LZ is visible in the valley on the left and looks much better as you get closer, trust me:

\"Helo\"%20flight%20returns%20to%20Phu%20Bai%20while%20the%20Sandy's%20proceed%20to%20Khe%20Sanh%20to%20provide%20assistance.%20%20As%20the%20helo's%20reach%20Phu%20Bai,%20the%20A1D's%20are%20at%20Khe%20Sanh%20(note%20the%20upper-right%20window%20with%20the%20Skyraider,%20one%20fire%20is%20visible%20as%20are%20the%20two%20targets%20marked%20with%20white%20phosphorous) Both%20flights%20proceed%20fron%20their%20respective%20locations%20towards%20A%20Shau%20Valley%20ingress%20point%20and%20the%20speeds%20and%20distances%20match%20up%20pretty%20close%20such%20that%20they%20hook%20up%20over%20that%20waypoint.%20%20Skyraiders%20then%20head%20in%20to%20do%20their%20thing%20and%20provide%20cover%20for%20the%20helos....once%20again%20the%20LZ%20is%20marked%20with%20a%20smoke%20canister.

Then everybody heads back to Phu Bai and lands together, last one down buys the first round of drinks...the whole thing should take about an hour, give or take. Sound like what we're after??

I'll post a rough view of the flight plans seperately so it'll make more sense....

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RAF92_BattleHawk
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

What mesh? I'm really interested in this so mabey one on ya could tell me!

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JG300-Stoopy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Military Flights

WOW!!!!

Friggin' thought I was looking at some of your old pix for a second....

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