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Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:50 am
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Mark! Hi Folks!

- MarkHolloway

The M551 had 300 horsepower.


300 HP! Mr. Green Mr. Green Scouts in seven ton M114s with only a 283 cubic inch Chevy engine had to run hard to stay out in front of those speedy monsters.

Sgt, Scouts Out!


Figures for the 6V53T vary between 275 and 300 H.P. (even within the same source) and this likely reflects when it's measured, where it's measured, and how it's measured. In any case, 25 H.P. at that weight class does not have a profound effect on performance as any automotive gearhead knows, and variability between vehicles could be expected to fall within that range depending on mileage (wear). The venerable antecedant 6V53 was nominally a 210 H.P. engine (normally aspirated) but state-of-tune for all engines has advanced over the years. I have my doubts we were really seeing 300 H.P. on your average M551.

The 6V-53 (210 hp) powers the widely used M113A1 and M113A2 family which has evolved into the 6V-53T (275 hp), powering the upgraded M730 Chaparral and M113A3 vehicles. The US Marines LAV (8 x Cool is also powered with the 275 hp version.

Foreign manufacturers have also selected the 6V-53T to power their vehicles including MOWAG Piranha, United Defense, LP, co-production programmes for new M113 vehicles in Pakistan and Armoured Infantry Fighting Vehicle (AIFV) vehicles in Turkey.

Repower of M113, A1 and A2 and AMX-13 vehicles in a number of countries has utilised the engine at horsepower levels from 265 hp to 275 hp with several countries having tested vehicles up to 350 hp. The 6V-53T is NATO certified to 350 hp. This version includes after-cooling and a glow plug system for unaided starting to -25°F. The glow plug system can be adopted by any existing 6V-53 military engine. This horsepower was selected for the US Air Force 60K aircraft loader programme.


Notice the same source is internally inconsistant:

6V53:
www.army-guide.com/eng...ct160.html

6v53T:
www.army-guide.com/eng...duct7.html

Sheridan, Army Guide H.P. rating:
www.army-guide.com/eng...SSID=49961
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:14 am
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

- MarkHolloway
M114's had 160 HP. They could have gotten more if they wanted Smile


Given the popularity of the small block Chevy V8 for hotrodders of the era I wonder what a 'Pimp your Lingle' contest among units would have produced

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:45 am
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

- Roy_A_Lingle

No. If we are going to add numbers after the name, then they have that wrong also.

M-46 Patton = Patton I
M-47 Patton = Patton II
M-48 Patton = Patton III
M-60 (never named) = Patton IV


Roy stop starting urban myths Wink

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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:10 am
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

- JimWeb
Roy stop starting urban myths Wink


Yeah, otherwise we'll have to call him Sparky Lingle... Mr. Green Bad enough he got that A0 stuff started, when the Army already gave us those nice designations. Cool

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:24 am
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

- bsmart
- MarkHolloway
M114's had 160 HP. They could have gotten more if they wanted Smile


Given the popularity of the small block Chevy V8 for hotrodders of the era I wonder what a 'Pimp your Lingle' contest among units would have produced



Not much...
160 @ 4200rpm...and I established that they maintained the standard 3.00" stroke (I expected to find that they had stroker motors with smaller bores) so I'm surprized at the low rpm rating. Since it was a gasser (OK, on MOGAS) we know it had limited compression so they really didn't have much room here (torque was much higher, as you'd expect, and peaked at 2,800 rpm) so for all intents and purposes, it would have all been over at about 3,500 rpm...the very definition of a "lazy" V8.

Sounds like my old CJ-7 Jeep with the 4.2L straight-six, come to think of it.
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:48 am
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

Hi everyone,
Nothing equates increase in speed bettter on an M551 than stripping it down and attaching fiberglass and PVC to it and calling it a T72. I will not give exact speeds but for those who are familiar with the Speedo/Tach set up (Not those M551/OPFOR T80's but real M551's stripped) might understand that we would max them out and still have RPMs climbing during our massive attacks. ROE speed limit be damned. All this during first light and a massive smoke screen in place. Visibility at best 10-15 meters. Woo-Hooo!!!!!! NTC 87-89.

Doug, APFSDS was/is fin stabilized and did not need rifle spin, which actually would deter performance. The key to launching a fin stabilized round from a rifled barrel is to have a band that rotates seperate from the projectile. Once they devloped the ability to do this the 105 cannon's life was extended. The final APFSDS round being the 900 series. The charge being so great only certain breech/gun combinations could handle it. Smooth bore is the way to go for velocity, less resistance. FCS and fins cover the accuracy part now.

Joe D
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:56 am
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

I remember the Sheridan Tach/Speedo topped out at 3,000 RPM when in the tachometer mode. That's about where our engines topped out at.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

"Weed",
I still have a Speedo/Tach gauge at home in my garage I found when cleaning out a room during a move. Also a fuel gauge. Didn't have the heart to toss them. Do you remember how they worked Mr. Green ?

Joe D
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

- Joe_D
Hi everyone,

Doug, APFSDS was/is fin stabilized and did not need rifle spin, which actually would deter performance. The key to launching a fin stabilized round from a rifled barrel is to have a band that rotates seperate from the projectile. Once they devloped the ability to do this the 105 cannon's life was extended. The final APFSDS round being the 900 series. The charge being so great only certain breech/gun combinations could handle it. Smooth bore is the way to go for velocity, less resistance. FCS and fins cover the accuracy part now.

Joe D


Yeppers, I recognized that a fin-stabalized round would not need to spin (we just didn't have a choice on those early 105's). My point was that the sign was (and is) TOTALLY in error in that there was no sabot round for the Sheridan M81 gun...ever. (And had there been, any spin would not have been imparted from the round itself, but from the rifling in the gun).

What I did not know, was that rounds had been developd that allowed for the independent ..uhhh....non-rotation of the fin-stabilized projectile within the otherwise spinning round in rifled guns. Kewlness! Like those "spinners" on blinged out hubcaps you see now!

I'd guess that on a stripped down Sheridan, with a new 6V63T installed, something on the order of 50mph or just over would be possible across a flat desert floor when the weather's cool. Hard on the fillings, though...I've hit near 50 downhill in a full-on Sheridan and it's a fearsome experience on a road.
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

Doug,
Never understood the reason why they would take an interupted screw breech 6inch gun and put it in a Tank (M60A2). Yes, I know size, dare I say girth was neccesary for the missle but why not go with a sliding breech block. Much more simpler and faster. Oh yeah, that's right. This was at a time when they stuck to the M73 MG design and re named it the M219 Laughing . I guess the term KISS , Keep It Simple Stupid wasn't around then.

M551's are one of the reasons why my body is so sore when I get up now. Broke my wrist during one of those crazy attacks and a few minor bones on others. It always amazed how troops would complain of the M60's ride compared to an M1. I guess everthing is relative.

Joe D
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

- Joe_D
"Weed",
I still have a Speedo/Tach gauge at home in my garage I found when cleaning out a room during a move. Also a fuel gauge. Didn't have the heart to toss them. Do you remember how they worked Mr. Green ?

Joe D


There was a switch on the driver's switch panel that said "Speed/RPM" or something like that. The gauge was a Tach OR Speedometer depending on which position the switch was in.

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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2


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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

Well, just to make things a little less cryptic, here's an original panel from an M551 (bottom), and the one I think you're talking about (a combo gauge) installed in the AVTF example (top). On that one, you can see that 3,000 rpm would translate to ~45 mph. If you exceed it a bit, you can approach or even slightly exceed 50. (assuming you can bust 3,500 rpm). Some old guys (like Roy) Laughing might not have any idea what you're talking about with this "switched gauge" thingy. In days of yore, we had the dealy-bob on the bottom only. BTW, the dealy-bob on the bottom is in a VISMOD vehicle at NTC in 2003, so not all the OPFOR vehicles had the trick stuff...
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:30 am
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

Some old guys (like Roy) Laughing might not have any idea what you're talking about with this "switched gauge" thingy. In days of yore, we had the dealy-bob on the bottom only.


Who me? Shocked

I did get to drive a M551 in Vietnam for about a month when I first got to G Troop while waiting for a replacement M113 to come in. Don't remember any of those gages or panels, but then speed wasn't something we did much of. When you are using a M551 for a bull dozer, low gear was all you needed.

I do remember a M114 (Scout Platoon, 1st Bn (Mech) 30th Inf, 3rd ID in Germany) that didn't have a switch to start the engine. If you wanted the engine to start, you flipped on the bilge pump! Wink

Now if you had water in coming into the hull and you want to turn on the bilge pump....well, there was no switch for that. Crying or Very sad

Some of my very old history.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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tankdriver
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:46 am
Post subject: Re: Ft. Snelling Military Museum - Pics #2

- Jens_O_Mehner
Not to mention that those few airborne armor types might appreciate a passing mention that they took the M551 to the sandbox in 1991/92 and were the first line of defense until the heavier stuff could be moved into theater.

Sheesh, who writes these things? Is it like "Fred, do some googling on that there tank" or more like "Wilbur, weren't you a mechanic on those things?"... Don't get me wrong, I truly appreciate their efforts and know the limitations inherent, but if you put up a plate in the first place and apparently do some research anyways, you might as well get it right and not make it seem like "Sparky" is your consultant.

Yeah, I know, 99% of the visitors don't know an M4 from their elbow, but this is one of my pet peeves... Evil or Very Mad


I agree, I went to Ft Hood, the M8 had modern headlights welded to it. Problem is years from now it will be considered correct as "I saw it at a museum".... Confused


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