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bialy-r · Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Museu a Céu Aberto, Centro Tecnológico do Exército, Rio de Janeiro (Brazil)

Tamoio
Blindada Brasileira
Cascavel prototype
X1A2

platao.ctex.eb.br/muse...museu2.htm

bialy-r · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

L 3/35 - not 100% but that could be - Academia Militar das Agulhas Negras (AMAN), Resende (Brazil)

picasaweb.google.com/C...9848150370

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

I'm now working through the information and photographs sent to me by Paulo Bidoli. First off, I've updated the entry for Itupeva:

Location ID 37590: Barcelos Collection, Itupeva

[img]http://preservedtanks.com/Albums/Locations/Brazil/37590-Barcelos%20Collection/1994%280%29_M3_Itupeva_PBidoli_c.jpg[/img]

and I've added the first new entry, a Stuart bought to publicise a racing team:

Location ID 37570: DIMEP

What owner of a historic Stuart wouldn't want to paint it bright red and give it chrome fittings?!

[img]http://preservedtanks.com/Albums/American/1030-M3%20Stuart/2005%281%29_RedTank_DIMEP_DFlores_c.jpg[/img]

(Photo: D. Flores)

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Finally, Sao Goncalo.

Location ID 37280: Praça Dos Ex-Combatentes, São Gonçalo

- any corrections or improvements to my Portuguese appreciated!

Unique ID 1788: M3A3, Sao Goncalo, Rio de Janeiro

It's serial 1475.

[img]http://PreservedTanks.com/Albums/American/1250-M3%20Lee%23Grant/IMG-6371_M3A3_SaoGoncalo_AArchive_c.jpg[/img]

- a nice shot, I think, using the 'JoeD camera pole' technique.

That's the last of the photos and information from my Brazil visit put online.

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- Pzkpfw-e

[quote="TrevorLarkum- that's where I just managed to get 3 pictures before being stopped by soldiers:[/quote]
I can see they want to keep their best afvs under wraps! :zip:

Indeed! It's pretty mad when they display a tank on the street, but then won't let you photograph it.

Pzkpfw-e · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jul 21, 2010 Posts: 1202

[quote="TrevorLarkum- that's where I just managed to get 3 pictures before being stopped by soldiers:[/quote]
I can see they want to keep their best afvs under wraps!

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum

I have now finished working on Linhares

Actually, I've gone back and added information on the plaques on the two tanks displayed inside. If anyone can improve the Portuguese translations (I'm using Google) please feel free to correct me:

Unique ID 860: L3, Linhares

Unique ID 1053: Renault FT, Linhares

Meanwhile I've added my photos of the L3 in the Vila Militar - that's where I just managed to get 3 pictures before being stopped by soldiers:

Unique ID 1777: L3, RCME Vila Militar

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- valls

- valls

If anyone can identify the artillery pieces being towed by the M4 and M5 that would be appreciated, it's not my forte (as usual, click through for more photos).

Both are Vickers Armstrong 7.2 in howitzers used by Brasilan Army heavy artillery units.

JAValls

Thank you, photo captions updated.

I have now added the photos of the Linhares museum from my recent trip:

Location ID 37100: Museo Militar Conde de Linhares

Anyone working on AFV Registers is welcome to link to the photos of armoured vehicles here (e.g. M2A1, M3A1, M8, Cascavel, etc.).

I have now finished working on Linhares. If anyone has any additional information, or spots errors, please let me know - otherwise I'm moving on to other collections.

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

The photos of the last vehicle at Linhares are now online:

Unique ID 1370: Marder Roland at Linhares

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- valls

The M41 C - Caxias was modified by Bernardini. The engine was a DS11 Scania and the extended rear was to accomodate the new radiators.

The X1A was the first of a serie of three, including the X1A1 and X1A2, a complete different vehicle (see my article in spanish at - www.panzernet.com/arti...pb1_jv.htm ) besides the other variation vehicles.

Next time you come, if you want, tell me and I will try to arrange some visits to other places.

JAValls

Thanks for that. Currently I have no plans to return to Brazil. Is there any chance you could get photo's of other tanks, e.g. those in Vila Militar? The soldiers might be more friendly to a local than they were to a foreigner!

valls · Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

The M41 C - Caxias was modified by Bernardini. The engine was a DS11 Scania and the extended rear was to accomodate the new radiators.

The X1A was the first of a serie of three, including the X1A1 and X1A2, a complete different vehicle (see my article in spanish at - www.panzernet.com/arti...pb1_jv.htm ) besides the other variation vehicles.

Next time you come, if you want, tell me and I will try to arrange some visits to other places.

JAValls

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

P.-O. and Valls - I'll take note of your comments on my return. Just before I go I want to post nearly the last of the Linhares pictures.

Unique ID 1816: Linhares M41C (note the extended engine compartment)

Unique ID 1074: Linhares X1

Unique ID 1075: Linhares XLF (based on X1 chassis)

It was good to get my first sight and pictures of an X1 and XLF.

Meanwhile Paulo Bidoli who contributed the pictures of the Stuarts at Bragança Paulista has sent me a lot more pictures and information. I'll put it all online on my return. However, I have invited him to call in to this forum so if he says hi while I'm away please make him welcome (as you guys always do).

the_shadock · Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

Another quick note :

the cast lifting rings that can be seen on the tank at Linhares are not characteristic of PCF-made M4A1s.

Only the "blocky" lifting rings found on earlier PCF-made tanks are particular to Pacific Car & Foundry, here is an example :

The later "cast" lifting rings can be seen on other manufacturer"s tanks, like on Chrysler-made M4A4s, M4A3s and M4s for example :

so this is not a distinctive feature of a PCF-made tank. However, this is a distinctive featuer of a later PCF-made tank, given that the "blocky" lifting rings were probably replaced by the cast lifting rings in January or February 1943.

P-O

the_shadock · Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- TrevorLarkum

Many thanks. Pressed Steel was the only M4A1 manufacturer in my database so it defaulted to that manufacturer, and I was not able to tell the difference myself. I've updated the entry (thanks too to your Sherman Minutia website):

Unique ID 1595: Linhares PCF M4A1

I've also added an additional photo that highlights the lifting eyes and tail light guards.

Can we go any further with the detective work? I'm tempted to suggest that the turret markings ("PSF 11/44") indicate that the turret was manufactured by Pittsburgh Steel Foundry in November 1944. However, that would appear to contradict Kurt's foundry symbols PDF which suggests that 'PSF' was used in place of a star symbol from ca 1952. It would also imply that this turret was manufactured some time after the tank and retrofitted (perhaps by the Brazilians).

Trevor,

according to Joe DeMarco, it is possible that PCF transitioned from "blocky" lifting rings to regular cast lifting rings in January or February 1943. If it is true, the tank located at Linhares was manufactured between January and November 1943, we could exclude a manufacture of that tank in 1942.

The turret is not original to that thank. It is a "high bustle" turret (part number D78461), usually found on large hatches M4A3(75) W. You can see a description of this particular turrets there :
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/turret_types/turret_types.html

This turret was either placed on the tank during wartime, or maybe after the war by the Brazilians, for an unknown reason, but it is not the turret the tank had when it left the factory.

Indeed, this turret was built by PSF in Novembre 1944. I think that there is a typo in Kurt's "foundry markings PDF file". I've already seen Sherman turrets with similar markings, and dated 8-43, or 6-43. Here is an example :

P-O

TrevorLarkum · Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: Preserved Tanks in Brazil

- the_shadock

Trevor,

this M4A1 was not manufactured by Pressed Steel Car, as stated on Preservedtanks.com, but by Pacific Car & Foundry. Here is a clear way to identify this tank as being a PCF-made tank :

http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a1_pcf.html

You can see that this M4A1 has all the items that make it a tank built by Pacific Car & Foundry.

P-O

Many thanks. Pressed Steel was the only M4A1 manufacturer in my database so it defaulted to that manufacturer, and I was not able to tell the difference myself. I've updated the entry (thanks too to your Sherman Minutia website):

Unique ID 1595: Linhares PCF M4A1

I've also added an additional photo that highlights the lifting eyes and tail light guards.

Can we go any further with the detective work? I'm tempted to suggest that the turret markings ("PSF 11/44") indicate that the turret was manufactured by Pittsburgh Steel Foundry in November 1944. However, that would appear to contradict Kurt's foundry symbols PDF which suggests that 'PSF' was used in place of a star symbol from ca 1952. It would also imply that this turret was manufactured some time after the tank and retrofitted (perhaps by the Brazilians).

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