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Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:02 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Neil

I'm looking at a Sept 1957 note of future chassis deliveries for the project. It includes additional 'NEW' chassis #s:

# 10 Nov 1957
# 11 Dec 1957
# 12 Jan 1958

its quoting 'Pre-Production Pilots of M48A2/T95' (gotta dig this one up & hope it'll be able to give some indepth info.)

Why do I do this to myself...?? (You could have warned me.... Wink

Don

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:37 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Here is another flow chart (if you can read the 'chicken scratch')

Don

JG300-Ascout · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:29 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- Dontos

- JG300-Ascout

To say nothing of the hulls, apparent from the front glacis.

Why is the gun tube so short with bore evacuators placed proportionately? Was there to be a demo variant?

The turret has the XM81, 152mm gun system. I believe it is the development 'chain' to the M60A2 turret system.

T95 (test rig) in the LST is THAT configuration. Trying to dig up stuff on it.

Don

I thought as much, but didn't see it on the "chart". Thought I recognized it. Wink

Doesn't the one from the LST building have an M60A1E2/A2 turret on it, though? Just an extension of the program?

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:28 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- Neil_Baumgardner

You might want to add columns for current location and serial number (since we have at least 2).

To make sure I have this straight, are you suggesting that chassis 4, 7, 8 & 9 were given new RNs after conversion?

FWIW, I'd avoiding double-listing individual vehicles... Perhaps include an "original RN" and "new RN" (where applicable) columns?

Neil

I'm working on some earlier dated material, which I'll add columns for each to keep the confusion to a minimum. All my notes, are from documents. Stuff seems to be bouncing around, but this will clear once I can organize it. (hopefully...!!)

Don

Joe_D · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:28 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Don,

I always believed the T95 can be traced as the root to the modern FCS in the M1 if your really dig deep. Even OPTAR, the pre-curser to the laser range finder is linked in with it. Truth be said, most of what the M1 is, was developed long before the GM Chrysler showdown ever happened with the MBT70, M60A2, and T95 series. The decision to go with who made the tank was mostly political, since the Army would tell who ever got the contract what they really wanted once congress gave approval.

Joe D

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:21 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

You might want to add columns for current location and serial number (since we have at least 2).

To make sure I have this straight, are you suggesting that chassis 4, 7, 8 & 9 were given new RNs after conversion?

FWIW, I'd avoiding double-listing individual vehicles... Perhaps include an "original RN" and "new RN" (where applicable) columns?

Neil

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:14 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Neil

Try this one, I just amended from 2 documents:

My head is beginning to hurt. Wink

ah, but I do so love a challange....

Don

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:07 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

I'm trying to organize all the vehicle data spreadsheet I posted above. Its a bit confusing but when time/date organized, it presents a decent picture of the development successes and variant directions.

I wasn't aware of the significance of this program. I may be a bit off base, but it appears that the T95 can be linked to the development of the MBT 70/ XM803/ M60A2 and some real weird M48/M60 variants.

Don

Neil_Baumgardner · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:06 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Ah yes, the T95 family - they give me headaches every time I look into them LOL...

I've compared your data with mine. There does seem to be some confusion regarding T95E7s & "T96"s vs T95E8s, as well as the T118s... Unfortunately, what we REALLY need is something that correlates Pilot #s, RNs or Chassis #s to Serial #s - which is what you can actually find under the front hull... The McCoy example is SN 12, Knox is SN 8...

Here's some edits & additional info to your notes:

Type Pilot # RN Chasis # Misc notes
T95 Pilot #1 9B1043 Chassis #4 Sent to APG, later converted to a T95E8
T95 Pilot #2 9B1044 Chassis #7 Sent to Knox. Rebuilt as T95E7 (#7) 'T254E2 gun' / I have this as converted to a T95E8
T95 Pilot #3 9B1045 Chassis #8 Sent to APG
T95 Pilot #4 9B1046 Chassis #9 Retained at Detroit, later fitted with variable height suspension and Integrated Fighting Compartment turret. Turret later transferred to Ford Aeroneutronics for use in Shillelagh testing.
T95E1 Pilot #1 9B1047 Chassis #5 Sent to APG. Rebuilt as T95E7 (#5) 'American version British 105mm gun' / I also have this as converted to a T95E8
T95E2 Pilot #1 9B1048 Chassis #1 Sent to APG. Rebuilt as T95E5 'T254E2 gun'
T95E2 Pilot #2 9B1049 Chassis #3 Sent to Knox, Could be the one at Fort McCoy, WI. Rebuilt as T95E5 'T254E2 gun'
T95E3 Pilot #1 9B1050 Chassis #2 Sent to Yuma, later converted to a T95E8 and then fitted with a variable height suspension, now range target at Camp Grayling, MI?
T95E3 Pilot #2 9B1051 Chassis #6 Sent to Knox, later converted to a T95E8 and then fitted with a variable height suspension and M60E2 turret - chassis no. 6. Most likely the one at Fort Knox.
T95E5
T95E5
T95E6 Pilot #1
T95E6 Pilot #2
T95E6 Pilot #3
T95E6 Pilot #4
T95E7 Pilot #1
T95E7 Pilot #2
T95E8 W/ GM Diesel
T95E8/T96 Pilot #1 9B1052 Chassis #4 Tested at Yuma, later fitted with an Integrated Fighting Compartment turret armed with a 120mm Delta gun
T95E8/T96 Pilot #2 9B1053 Chassis #7
T95E8/T96 Pilot #3 9B1054 Chassis #8
T95E8/T96 Pilot #4 9B1055 Chassis #9 Tested at Detroit Tank Arsenal
T95E9 Rebuilt as T95E6 w/ 12V717 diesel
T95E10
T95E11
T95E12 Pilot #1
T95E12 Pilot #2
T95 (test rig) Pilot #1 Chassis #4 (?) w/ XM81, 152mm gun system
T95 (test rig)/T118 Pilot #2 9B2027 T118 Combat Engineer Vehicle variant, later fitted with a variable height suspension and M48 turret / w/ XM81, 152mm gun system - very contradictory?
T118 9B2028
T118 9B2029
T95 (test rig) Pilot #3 9B2030 T95 built for, but not fitted with AVLB. Later fitted with a friction/hydropneumatic variable height suspension and M48 turret at APG. Apparently later fitted with M60E2 turret. Now in storage at Anniston Army Depot.
T95 (test rig) Pilot #4 9B3488

I still have a headache from these LOL...

Neil

Joe_D · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:54 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Don,

I don't know much about the T-95/96 history other than the guns (T254E2 and XM81). So I'm very interested in what you dig up. The failure/cancellation of that system created the M60 series. Look forward to what else you dig up.

Notice on your chart they mention recoiling and non-recoiling mounts. Kinda hard to imagine a gun designed to function without a recoil mech that could stand those forces. It does save on a lot of space when designing a turret, But you now have a hell of a lot of kick the vehicle and FCS has to absorb. That system (T95) had a whole lotta new ideas that were still unproven or needed further development that made upgrading the M48 to the M60 a much safer and economical approach given the threat and urgency to meet it at the time. But I always wondered what could've been, just like the MBT70.

Joe D

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:18 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Here is some of the info I was able to 'extract'

Type Pilot # RN Chasis # Misc notes
T95 Pilot #1 9B1043 4
T95 Pilot #2 9B1044 7 Rebuilt as T95E7 (#7) 'T254E2 gun'
T95 Pilot #3 9B1045 8
T95 Pilot #4 9B1046 9
T95E1 Pilot #1 9B1047 Rebuilt as T95E7 (#5) 'American version British 105mm gun'
T95E2 Pilot #1 9B1048 Rebuilt as T95E5 'T254E2 gun'
T95E2 Pilot #2 9B1049 Rebuilt as T95E5 'T254E2 gun'
T95E3 Pilot #1 9B1050
T95E3 Pilot #2 9B1051
T95E5
T95E5
T95E6 Pilot #1
T95E6 Pilot #2
T95E6 Pilot #3
T95E6 Pilot #4
T95E7 Pilot #1
T95E7 Pilot #2
T95E8 W/ GM Diesel
T95E9 Rebuilt as T95E6 w/ 12V717 diesel
T95E10
T95E11
T95E12 Pilot #1
T95E12 Pilot #2
T96 Pilot #1 9B1052 4
T96 Pilot #2 9B1053 7
T96 Pilot #3 9B1054 8
T96 Pilot #4 9B1055 9
T95 (test rig) Pilot #1 4 (?) w/ XM81, 152mm gun system
T95 (test rig) Pilot #2 9B2027 w/ XM81, 152mm gun system
T95 (test rig) Pilot #3 9B2030
T95 (test rig) Pilot #4 9B3488

Shocked

Don

bsmart · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:15 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Here is a link to the previous T95 thread (Now that I edited the posting to include the link Rolling Eyes

)

www.com-central.net/in...sc&start=0

We might want to look at the SN/RN Neil was working on in it. It seems to be at odds with the pairings you have on first glance

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:12 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- bsmart

Where's Neil? He was tracking these. I think Pilot 4 (Chassis 9) may be the one that is now in Weirton WV. I know we have an old thread about this

Bob

I know Neil will chime in, when he pops up next time.

I have 'oodles' of SN/RN/vehicle types data to fill in some of the gaps (hopefully).

I leafed thru several volumes of dedicated data, only got a few tidbits. Guess I'll need to gather more,....next visit.

Don

Dontos · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:07 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

- JG300-Ascout

To say nothing of the hulls, apparent from the front glacis.

Why is the gun tube so short with bore evacuators placed proportionately? Was there to be a demo variant?

The turret has the XM81, 152mm gun system. I believe it is the development 'chain' to the M60A2 turret system.

T95 (test rig) in the LST is THAT configuration. Trying to dig up stuff on it.

Don

bsmart · Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:07 am Post subject: Re: T95 / T96 rehash

Where's Neil? He was tracking these. I think Pilot 4 (Chassis 9) may be the one that is now in Weirton WV. I know we have an old thread about this

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