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Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Massimo_Foti
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Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:32 am
Post subject: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

According to Vladimir Francev's book on CKD export light tanks (MBI Publications), there are five of these preserved. Four of them are pretty well know, and listed on Pierre-Olivier's PDF:

- Two tanks in Thun, one stored on the outside, and a runner stored inside.

- One in Full (in running order?)

- One in Sinsheim (Germany)

There was another one, Francev says it's in Solothurm, so I checked the local museum's website and they indeed mention they have one on the ground floor:
www.altes-zeughaus.ch/go.php?lang=e

After a 4 hours trip, I arrived in Solothurm, and the tank was missing! Crying or Very sad
It left Solothurm in early 2008 and it's now in Schaffhausen.

I was pretty disappointed at first, but at least I've got the opportunity to visit Solothurm's museum. It's hosted in an old building, dating back to 1600, used as city arsenal for a few centuries, a very cool location. It's an amazing place if you like old armory, but it also has some interesting swiss artillery from the 1850-1950 periods. Among other things I managed to take pictures of 7,5 cm Pak 1944, the gun used for Nahkampfkanone I and Nahkampfkanone II (both prototypes stored in Thun).

The only things related to the LTL-H still available in Solothurm were a postcard with a small picture of the tank and a 24 mm Panzerbuchse 41, the gun used in the tank. Note it's classified as "Panzerbuchse", basically anti-tank rifle, kind of what happened to 2.8 cm sPzB 41 in Germany.

I can post pictures of the guns if you want (is artillery allowed here?), but quality isn't great, because light was poor and flash not permitted

In the end I was back to my personal tank hunting, and reached Schaffhausen's museum website. I wasn't aware of it, since their website is only in german (a language I can't speak or read):
www.museumimzeughaus.c...=45&lang=1

From the above page I've got three very cool news:

1) They indeed have the LTL-H, and it's one of the original 12 tanks delivered by CKD, using a gasoline engine (later 12 were assembled in Switzerland, using a swiss, diesel, engine)

2) They also have a G-13, another beast not listed Pierre-Olivier's PDF or any other register I am aware

3) Both tanks are in running order! Shocked

I also got bad news, the Schaffhausen's museum opens just once a month, from april to october... That means 6 days a year! That's even worst than Cecchignola in Roma

Anyway, the hunt is still going on, I plan to visit Schaffhausen and find the beast. Will keep you updated. Hope to be back with good news and plenty of pictures

Massimo
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TrevorLarkum
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Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:08 am
Post subject: Re: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

Very interesting - good hunting, Massimo! I look forward to hearing how you get on.

For artillery, there's a dedicated forum here:

www.com-central.net/in...forum&f=86

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Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
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the_shadock
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Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 2849
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 7:32 am
Post subject: Re: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

well Massimo, that's pretty good news !! Mr. Green thanks for this discovery.

How many of them are still hidden in some obscur buildings or private collections?

Very recently, I've heard of a private collection in Germany. It is located in F├╝rth, near Nurenberg.
Apparently, there are at least a Panzer IV, but I didn't see any picture of this museum yet. The owners of this private collection are willing to open a museum in the next few months or years..

P-O

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the_shadock
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Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:16 am
Post subject: Re: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

- Massimo_Foti

2) They also have a G-13, another beast not listed Pierre-Olivier's PDF or any other register I am aware


Massimo,

after further researches, I've found that the G-13 at Schaffhausen is the registration number M-78029 which was already listed in my PDF file as belonging to the Thun Tank Museum (there was a picture in the PDF file). It was then donated to Schaffhausen in 2006, but I was not aware of that donation.

P-O

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Massimo_Foti
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Posts: 4352
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:26 am
Post subject: Re: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

Yeah, good catch! I can see a picture on the museum's website:
www.museumimzeughaus.c...3_ganz.jpg

I plan to try and be there very soon, stay tuned for additional pictures.

Massimo
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JeffStringer
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Posts: 631

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:01 am
Post subject: Re: Chasing a swiss LTL-H (aka Pz 39). A near miss

Good discovery Massimo!

Thanks for sharing it with us here!
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