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Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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LavTech
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:48 pm
Post subject: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

The Old M113's is just like the energizer Bunny !! keeps going and going and going
The detail below is from the Ottawa Citizen News paper:


The Canadian Forces will ship more armoured vehicles to Afghanistan to help ease the wear and tear on the military’s combat fleet in Kandahar. About 40 tracked M113 armoured personnel carriers will be shipped early in the New Year, a move which will give commanders another type of vehicle to use when the wheeled LAV-3, as well as Bison armoured carriers, are undergoing maintenance, said army spokesman Capt. Sylvain Chalifour.

In addition, some of the Bisons now in Afghanistan will have to be returned to Canada for refit work, so the M113s will make up for that shortfall, he said. There are already several M113s in Kandahar, Capt. Chalifour added.

Afghanistan’s terrain is exceptionally hard on vehicles and equipment of all types, according to military officials. Army officers privately say the M113s are also needed to roll over some of the obstacles that have stopped or slowed down the wheeled LAV-3s. While the LAV-3 is well regarded by the troops, it has had difficulty driving over some irrigation ditches during fighting in the Afghan countryside.

Tracked vehicles, such as the M113, will be able to negotiate such obstacles better. Officers also say the M113 can keep up to the Leopard tank already in Kandahar. In September, the military announced it was sending Leopards to Afghanistan in a bid to boost firepower and protection for its soldiers.

Earlier this week, one of the Leopards hit a mine during a training exercise outside Kandahar. The explosion blew off one of the tank’s tracks, but it was repaired later that day. No soldiers were injured in the incident.

The future strategy of Canada’s army is to switch to a predominantly wheeled vehicle fleet which, according to senior officers, would be more easily transportable overseas. When he was head of the army, Gen. Rick Hillier, now chief of the defence staff, was behind the decision to get rid of most of Canada’s Leopard tanks.

But the Afghanistan war has emphasized the need for tracked armoured vehicles, said retired major-general Pat Mitchell, a former armoured officer. He said tracked vehicles are far superior to the LAV-3s for going cross-country. “The M113 is an excellent vehicle to use in Afghanistan,� he said.

Gen. Hillier, however, has said the army will stick to its plan of becoming a predominately wheeled fleet in the future. He noted that although most armoured vehicles would be wheeled, there could be a mix of tracked vehicles for some missions.

According to Gen. Hillier, the LAV-3 has proven its worth in Afghanistan. rmy commander Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie has put protection of the troops as his priority and equipment purchases and shipments of existing gear over to Afghanistan are taking that into account.

For instance, the military intends to purchase at least 100 armoured transport trucks in a project that is expected to cost $100 million.

The trucks will include a high level of protection for crews to withstand landmines and improvised explosive devices. The contract for those trucks is expected to be awarded by the end of the year.
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Jim_Coles
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:23 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

Are these the rebuilt M113s with the lengthened hull?
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Jason_Bobrowich
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:44 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

This news came out about 3 weeks to a month ago but the M113s going are going to be the M113A3 TLAV....longer hull with an additional road wheel, new external stowage boxes and mounting the One Metre Turret(Modified ex-Grizzly AVGP turret). They will also have add-on armour plating.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:44 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

Hi LavTech! Hi Folks!

- LavTech
The Old M113's is just like the energizer Bunny !! keeps going and going and going


Energizer Bunny?

I like that!

I have felt for a long time that a mix of wheeled and tracked combat vehicles is the best way to go.

However I do understand that cost drives most military forces to pick one over the other. I for one am not sure that is a good thing for the troops out in the field.

Thanks for the news story LavTech!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

I think its noreworthy that in the U.S. the lengthened M113 and Stryker (LAV-3) had been locked in a VERY bitter contest a few years back. Bad blood all-around from that contest. And now here they are merrily working together in Canadian hands.
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J.McGillivray
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:35 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

There are two photos of Canadian TLAVs in Afghanistan on combat camera.

www.combatcamera.force...mbatcamera

www.combatcamera.force...mbatcamera
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J.McGillivray
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

Here is a photo of a Canadian TLAV with slat armour near Kandahar.

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:25 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

Hi Mike! Hi Folks!

- mike_Duplessis
I think its noreworthy that in the U.S. the lengthened M113 and Stryker (LAV-3) had been locked in a VERY bitter contest a few years back. Bad blood all-around from that contest. And now here they are merrily working together in Canadian hands.


Count the road wheels on those Canadian M113s. They only have five. That is NOT the MTVL (six wheeled M113) that was up against the Stryker.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Scott_Taylor
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:23 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

Hi Roy:

We do have the six-wheeled versions as well, but I haven't seen any photos of them in Afghanistan. Lots were at CFB Gagetown when I was there last month, though.

Cheers,

Scott
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:33 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

Hi Scott! Hi Folks!

- Scott_Taylor

We do have the six-wheeled versions as well, but I haven't seen any photos of them in Afghanistan.


I know which is why I am surprised to only see the older five wheel versions in Afghanistan. It maybe a case of use up/wear out the older vehicles and save the newer MTVL versions for later.

As far as we have seen so far, the MTVL version and the LAV IIIs have yet to serve along side of each other in a war zone.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

- J.McGillivray
Here is a photo of a Canadian TLAV with slat armour near Kandahar.



Not the standard track - it is the new endless rubber loop.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
- J.McGillivray
Here is a photo of a Canadian TLAV with slat armour near Kandahar.



Not the standard track - it is the new endless rubber loop.


That isn't 'BAND TRACK', is it???

'SPARKIE' will eat this stuff up....

Don
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Maple_Leaf_Eh
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:00 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

The track has been discussed on the Canadian AFV Network forum ( www.network54.com/Foru...ian+M113A3 ) . I don't know how to explain it better, but it seems the back-of-cigarette-pack doodles and 0-dark-stupid in-the-OP musings have come to fruition. DEW Engineering has another website bragging about the changes.

Longer chassis, better gunner protection, better track, external stowage boxes, shopping cart bar armour, better driver's station, etc etc

www.army.forces.gc.ca/...tlav_e.asp
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:33 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

Hi Folks!

Looking at the photos that Maple Leaf posted links to, the track looks like a double pin with end connectors type of track.

That's not Sparkie's favorite band type.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians sending M113's to Afghanistan

I'd suggest taking a close look again, Roy, just compare the width of the pads... Cool

Cheers,

Jens O.
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