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New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Springs
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:29 am
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Springs

Hi Jens

- Jens_O_Mehner

I dunno,

shouldn't the bumper number read more like IIFFV 2F32 on the left (looking at the vehicle) and battery letter-vehicle number (e.g.B-23) on the right? Seems like all photographical evidence of other M107s and M110s in Viet Nam points toward that pattern, including some shots on the landscaper website linked to by Roy.

"A" for Artillery is rather unusual, I've seen "F" and "FA" for Field Artillery, "FAD" for FA Detachment, "AD", "ADA", and "AAA" for Anti-Aircraft resp. Air Defense Artillery, but "A" alone is IIRC unknown... Writing this, I'm aware that photographical evidence is right around the corner and the photo is probably somewhere in my archives as well. Wink

Cheers,

Jens O.


This is what I think I am reading on that M107

Left: 23GP 33F = 23rd Group, 33rd Field Artillery Battalion
Right: 2A 32 = 2nd Artillery Battalion, A Battery, 32nd vehicle.

Remember, not ever unit followed/follows the same pattern for marking their vehicles. Your pattern is one of the ways it was done.
IIFFV 2F32 on the left & battery letter-vehicle number (e.g.B-23) on the right.

In the case of 23GP rather than IIFFV, IIFFV would have been common before the Army started letting units smaller that Divisions have their own patches. 23GP as part of the bumper markings would have been used after that change took place.

My 2 cents on "LATE" Vietnam era bumper markings.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:03 am
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Springs

Heres something I found.

The photo is low resolution but some of the digits in the Bumper # are readable.



Regards
Don
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:18 am
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Spring

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey
On this page, there is a page of "Proud American" at "Camp Eagle", 1965, but as it's next to a shot from Ft. Sill and it doesn't look right for Vietnam to me (the trees are all wrong, naked from autumn) and I don't think the VN version of Camp Eagle (the 101st Div. Base Camp that I operated from) even existed yet west of Phu Bai (Camp Hochmuth) I think that's like the Ft. Sill photo.

www.landscaper.net/the...n%20(M107)


I have to agree with you Doug. Those trees just don't look right. When did we start the de-folent spraying? That might account for the naked trees.

They have me confuzed.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:24 am
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Springs

Hi Don! Hi Folks!

- Dontos

The photo is low resolution but some of the digits in the Bumper # are readable.


Don


That left side could be 32GP2FF which would be: 32 Group (Arty) 2nd Field Forces.

Can anyone make out the markings on the right side? Looks like a set of four letters and numbers possibly?

Note about that possble FF marking. Some units used FFV and some used just the FF.

Sgt, Scouts out!

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Hellfish6
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Springs

Thanks for the T162 info, Neil!
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:11 am
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Spring

- Roy_A_Lingle

I have to agree with you Doug. Those trees just don't look right. When did we start the de-folent spraying? That might account for the naked trees.

They have me confuzed.
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Roy,

And, more to the point, I don't think Camp Eagle actually existed in 1965, it was still primarily a Marine TAOR, not the 101st yet, and was little villages of Thon Duong and Xuon Ha. What became Camp Eagle was not really classical "firebase" territory...not particularly high ground and I never saw any really big guns there. The nearest firebase was, in fact, FSB Birmingham, which had the M107's during the late '60's-Jan. '72.

D.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:58 pm
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Springs

Ask and you shall receive. More T162 pics from Dustin Roderigas:

Hmmm...%20Not%20the%20last%20SPH%20to%20be%20terminated%20in%20part%20due%20to%20changing%20air-transportability%20requirements....

Neil
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Hellfish6
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:02 pm
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Springs

Outstanding. Much appreciated.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Springs

Yet more...



Neil
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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:32 pm
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Spring

bumper markings for M107 2/32 1967

Proud%20American%201966
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:44 pm
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Spring

- SHAWN
bumper markings for M107 2/32 1967

Proud American 1966



Thanks, Shawn...

That settles that! Same gun as Ft. Sill, different than mine...and WAY different neighborhood! (Xuan Loc is FAR from "I" Corps) Totally different dealy-bob with no connection whatsoever!

D.
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:19 pm
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Spring

- SHAWN
bumper markings for M107 2/32 1967





Well,

live and learn Shocked , those bumper markings are authentic after all- duly noted and committed to memory, thanks Shawn.

Cheers,

Jens O.
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Spring

- Neil_Baumgardner
Ask and you shall receive. More T162 pics from Dustin Roderigas:




Neil


With Hunnicutt and Crismon still tucked away in the last couple of boxes I have to unpack, is that the same basic vehicle as the M53/55 or have there been major changes?

TIA,

Jens O.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:23 pm
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Springs

- Dontos

Here is a little info for you....

The 175s were all assigned to Field Force (IFFV, IIFFV) level as general support artillery. IFFV had no operational-level artillery headquarters (no FDC) at that time, so their battalions were attached directly to the divisions. At the time I was there, 1st Cav Divarty had a composite 8-in/175mm battalion which had weapons such as that shown, but I don’t recognize either the unit markings (2/32 FA) or the label “Proud American� (assuming those are all original) on that particular track. 23d Gp is also unknown to me, unless that’s a Ft. Sill unit. The 8-in/175 battalion was a very useful unit because of the inherent accuracy and striking power of the 8-in weapons and because of the reach of the 175s. When firing high angle, we had to issue a NOTAM (notice to airmen) in effect establishing a no-fly zone over the 175s. The shell went up more than 10,000 feet.

During operations in Binh Dinh Province in 1967, we had an LZ Hammond which had a couple of 175s. The NVA assaulted the wire one night when the 175s were firing H&I fires. When firing high angle, the tube had to be lowered to re-load. That’s when the NVA came over the wire in front of these two tubes. The guns fired out at zero elevation and charge 3 (the max charge, which happened to be in the tube at the time). The attack was halted in its tracks. The next morning, over 50 shattered bodies were found in the wire. All appeared to have been killed by shock and concussion. The equilibrators of the recoil mechanism were completely shattered and hydraulic oil was everywhere. The “175mm anti-personnel device� earned its spurs that night. From then on, if there was a threat to an LZ, all one had to do was send out a 175 gun, operational or not, and park it in the LZ. The threat always went away immediately; the NVA didn’t want to have anything to do with them.

Sorry I can’t give you more specific information.


Just a little background info on the 175mm in Vietnam...
Don


Doug, Roy, & Shawn...

Here is more information / reflections after seeing the 'Proud American' website from my 'source'. Cool

"That’s very interesting. That explains why I had not heard of the units. The III Corps Zone, which included the capital military district (Saigon), was much more compact than any of the others. The combat units in that zone tended to mass for their various operations, and there was an active role for IIFFV as an operational corps-level headquarters.

In the 1st Cav’s AO, we had an ARVN division and later a Korean division to operate with, but no US divisions. Neither the ARVN nor the Korean division had much in the way of artillery — nothing bigger than a heavy mortar, as I remember. IFFV was way down the coast at Qui Nhon, out of radio range, and completely out of the area of tactical operations.

At one time, I was sent out to an isolated hilltop in Bong Son province with two men and a jeep to create a “jump� FDC for a couple of months. We built a couple of bamboo lean-tos, one as an FDC and one as our “hootch� for everything else. That was a very lonely period, as the entire 18th NVA Regiment was roaming those woods and we had no on-site ground security. We shot illumination from there the night the 22d ARVN division stumbled onto the massed 18th NVA regiment. I still have photos of a stack of weapons, 8’ to 10’ high and some 20’ across which were taken as a result of virtually wiping out that entire regiment in two nights and one day of fighting. I was very glad to see dawn on that third morning. We were recalled from the hilltop and went to the brand-new Phu Cat air base about 20 miles away to have our first warm shower in almost two months. The contrast from our hilltop position to the sparkling new officers mess at Phu Cat was really a memorable occasion.
"


Regards
Don

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:10 pm
Post subject: Re: New Pictures from Fort Sill + M39 AUV in Colorado Springs

- Dontos
[ The III Corps Zone, which included the capital military district (Saigon), Regards
Don


Note: aka, the SSZ, or "Saigon Special Zone", occasionally seen in documents as the "Capital (Saigon) Special Zone".

...just for those who might be looking it up on maps or trying to distinguish it from those STZ's ("Special Tactical Zones").
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