±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: nbrich1
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6596

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 115
Total: 115
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Photo Gallery
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Photo Gallery
25: Photo Gallery
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Search and Rescue
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Member Screenshots
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Member Screenshots
36: Statistics
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Photo Gallery
44: Downloads
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Home
50: CPGlang
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Photo Gallery
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Photo Gallery
64: Member Screenshots
65: Downloads
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Photo Gallery
70: Home
71: Photo Gallery
72: Photo Gallery
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Photo Gallery
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: News
87: Photo Gallery
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Member Screenshots
92: Photo Gallery
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Your Account
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Home
109: CPGlang
110: Photo Gallery
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Focus on the M47
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Trevor

Here are somemore shots taken today of the cutaway tank. I found the Drivers escape hatch open. Was able to crawl into the drivers compartment and the turret. The interesting item found was the hull SN stamped into the data plate mount. The SN of the tank was 7693. Not sure why is got re stamped 20.



Regards
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 15, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Massimo_Foti
That data plate is italian. It says the tank was revisioned by "Officine Fiore", in Caserta, not that far from Naples. Back in those day the Italian Army's tank school was stationed in Caserta (it's now in Lecce)

Hope it will help

Massimo


Thanks, Massimo - that does help. It has prompted me to research Caserta, and I have put together an entry for the armour school there:

Caserma Ferrari Orsi, Caserta

There is now a link to it from the M47:

Fort Knox Italian M47

Do you know how well concentrated are the places where Italian tanks served in Italy? For example, would it be reasonable to assume that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point (so I can add it to their previous location lists, and maps) or is that unreasonable?


On a different but related note, does anyone know the significance of the metal strips welded diagonally on the front and back of M47 turrets?



See also other M47s:

Preserved M47s

I seem to see them mostly on ex-Italian vehicles, and there are no pictures of them in Hunnicutt. I'm wondering if they may be an Italian feature, and therefore a way of identifying ex-Italian M47s. Does anyone know?

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Smashy
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 05, 2010
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.

_________________
Smashy
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Do you know how well concentrated are the places where Italian tanks served in Italy? For example, would it be reasonable to assume that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point (so I can add it to their previous location lists, and maps) or is that unreasonable?


I think it's very unlike that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point. Even if a tank was revisioned by a plant in Caserta it doesn't means it served there too.
At firt the M47s were fielded by first line units, facing the north-east border with Jugoslavia and Austria. Later on they were replaced by M60s and Leopard 1s and moved to second line units in southern Italy, like Sicilia, Sardegna and Puglia. There they served for a very long period. In the end some of those units were disbanded, other got Centauro armoured cars instead.

I know for sure "Officine Goriziane" was another plant who revisioned M47s. I believe OTO Melara did that too, but I am not 100% sure.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 15, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Dontos
Trevor

Here are somemore shots taken today of the cutaway tank. I found the Drivers escape hatch open. Was able to crawl into the drivers compartment and the turret. The interesting item found was the hull SN stamped into the data plate mount. The SN of the tank was 7693. Not sure why is got re stamped 20.


Don - thanks for that, I'll add the photos asap. I don't understand the situation with the SN. The rare early muzzle brake would imply one of the pilot vehicles so 20 would make sense - not 7693. I'm confused!


- Smashy
Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.


That's interesting - is that from personal knowledge, or a suggestion?


- Massimo_Foti
I think it's very unlike that all Italian M47s served at Caserta at some point. Even if a tank was revisioned by a plant in Caserta it doesn't means it served there too.
At firt the M47s were fielded by first line units, facing the north-east border with Jugoslavia and Austria. Later on they were replaced by M60s and Leopard 1s and moved to second line units in southern Italy, like Sicilia, Sardegna and Puglia. There they served for a very long period. In the end some of those units were disbanded, other got Centauro armoured cars instead.

I know for sure "Officine Goriziane" was another plant who revisioned M47s. I believe OTO Melara did that too, but I am not 100% sure.


Understood - I guess we need to track down and decode some more upgrade plates.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 4632
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

[quote="TrevorLarkum"]
- Dontos
Trevor



- Smashy
Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.


That's interesting - is that from personal knowledge, or a suggestion?



They are, indeed, what we call "driprails" when applied to automobiles. I asked about these once over at Pierantonio Farina's "Ferreamole" website via email.

www.ferreamole.it/imag...m47_05.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 2024
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

The M60A1/A3's had them too, although not near as elaborate, they kept the driver from getting too wet.


_________________
Joe D
*****************
My M60 Gallery
*****************
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:15 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Understood - I guess we need to track down and decode some more upgrade plates.


I think if you dig past messages from the forum you can find something. There are quite a few former italian M47s used as monuments in the USA, and I remember seeing some plates posted here.
I am away from home at the moment, once I will be back I will see if I have something among my pictures. Maybe from the M47 at "Museo dei Carristi" in Roma.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 15, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Dontos
Trevor

Here are somemore shots taken today of the cutaway tank. I found the Drivers escape hatch open. Was able to crawl into the drivers compartment and the turret. The interesting item found was the hull SN stamped into the data plate mount. The SN of the tank was 7693. Not sure why is got re stamped 20.

...

Regards
Don


Thanks Don, pictures added:

Unique ID 1324: Cutaway M47


- Doug_Kibbey
- TrevorLarkum


- Smashy
Rainwater gutters to stop water pouring off the turret into the hull & engine hatches.


That's interesting - is that from personal knowledge, or a suggestion?



They are, indeed, what we call "driprails" when applied to automobiles. I asked about these once over at Pierantonio Farina's "Ferreamole" website via email.

www.ferreamole.it/imag...m47_05.jpg


Thanks guys - I hadn't thought of drip rails!


- Massimo_Foti
Understood - I guess we need to track down and decode some more upgrade plates.


I think if you dig past messages from the forum you can find something. There are quite a few former italian M47s used as monuments in the USA, and I remember seeing some plates posted here.

Massimo


A good idea, so I've done just that - and you're right, there are lots of posts on Italian M47s in the USA. Here they are - I'll try to work through them and add entries for these tanks to PreservedTanks.com at some point:

Chiriaco Summit: www.com-central.net/in...3261#93261
Fort Hood: www.com-central.net/in...5122#45122
Killeen, TX: www.com-central.net/in...3774#33774
Millstadt, IL: www.com-central.net/in...1911#91911
Fort Lewis: www.com-central.net/in...0639#80639
Ash Flat, Arkansas: www.com-central.net/in...6108#76108
Lisbon, ND: www.com-central.net/in...3207#73207
Crane Naval Warfare Center: www.com-central.net/in...2079#72079
AAF: www.com-central.net/in...1910#61910
Camp Dodge, Iowa: www.com-central.net/in...7725#57725
Sherpardsville, KY: www.com-central.net/in...6335#56335
Fort Snelling: www.com-central.net/in...4590#54590
Camp Murray, WA: www.com-central.net/in...3462#53462
Onalaska, Wisconsin: www.com-central.net/in...2849#52849
Fort George Meade, MD: www.com-central.net/in...5907#35907

Also Italian M47, Bergen, Germany: www.com-central.net/in...3660#83660


I was just about to update all M47s with drip rails as being ex-Italian (e.g. the Stithton one at FK, and the one at Thun in Switzerland) when I found this:

- worthhaggerton
Hello from Texas,
M47 rain gutters were added to US tanks also. You will see them on NG tanks during the 1960's routs here in the US.

Rain Gutters also show up on French and German M47.

Worth Haggerton


So now I don't know what to think!

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 569

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Were these all actually Italian Army vehicles or simply overhauled at an Italian factory/depot under a US contract?

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 09, 2006
Posts: 941

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- Dontos
Trevor

Looks good.

BTW: This is the data plate on the rear of M47 (SN3200).



Regards
Don


Hi Trevor,
Is it correct that sn 3200 is unique ID number 1326 at your site? Because it has sn 3400 on your site.

Regards,
Lesley
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:31 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

The one in Thun isn't an ex-italian tank. It was evaluated by the Swiss Army in 1952, and lost against the Centurion.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 12:39 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

Here is the plate from M47 in Museo Carristi, Roma:



Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 4641
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:37 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

BTW you can read more about Astra here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._(company)

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 15, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:33 am
Post subject: Re: Focus on the M47

- L.Delsing

Hi Trevor,
Is it correct that sn 3200 is unique ID number 1326 at your site? Because it has sn 3400 on your site.

Regards,
Lesley


Fixed - thanks.


- Massimo_Foti
The one in Thun isn't an ex-italian tank. It was evaluated by the Swiss Army in 1952, and lost against the Centurion.

Massimo


Understood, updated. Any idea where it came from, i.e. was it supplied from the US? If so, clearly some US M47s had the drip-rails.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 4 of 8
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum