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PreservedTanks.com
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Joe_D
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Posts: 2050
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:11 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

That whole G%$#n thing,

One idiots crusade to name something.

Sometimes I guess it's all a matter of perspective. When I first came in the M60 was the Backbone of the US Army and USMC but was just starting to be replaced by the M1. No one that I could remember ever called them "Patton" during that time. Even my Senior NCO's with close to 20 years never called them Pattons, only occasionally using that term when talking about 48's. Later on as the M1 took over (Very Quickly I might add), most M1 Tankers called us "Sixty" or "Dinosaur" Jockey's. Interesting point is that we mostly used the term "M1" instead of Abrams, I guess because it rolled off the tongue so much easier.

About the M46, to my knowledge that was the first "officially" named Patton. Makes sense, much like what happened with the M1, a very popular Armor General Died suddenly and you have a new tank coming out. I can only imagine what the M1 would've been called if General Abrams had lived into retirement and died after it was fielded. The biggest difference is the M1 was an all new tank whereas the M60 in reality traces back to the Pershing, and only naming the M46 kept it from being "Pershing V" Shocked .

Joe D
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

A small milestone - I've written up the first of the tanks I saw during my US trip and it's online here (it's had the 'Armour Archive' treatment if you like):

preservedtanks.com/Loc...p;Select=4

The best bet for looking through the pictures is probably to select on the first one, then use the 'VCR'-style next button. Note, not all the navigation handling is finished, so if you get lost just use your Back button.

Anyway, the aim of course is to eventually do this for all such tanks in the US (I'm guessing that's something like '1 down, 1999' to go!), based on the Preserved Tanks in the USA book/manuscript I wrote some years ago.

I'd appreciate any extra info on this vehicle that you guys can provide (all credited, of course). Here are some questions to kick things off:

1) Neil: I got the location from your Register (hence your credit), however you list it as being in the TACOM list but I haven't seen it there (so it was news to me when I went through your document). Also, the location was reported on this site by Chris_C - so should he also have a credit or did you already have it in your list? Similarly, where did you get the serial number from?

www.com-central.net/in...ston#34383

2) All: I didn't see the serial number in the Register until too late - where on the vehicle should I have looked for it? Does it relate in any way to the numbers I photographed?

3) All: My expertise is German vehicles so while I accept it's mostly likely to be an M42A1, I would be very interested to learn if there's a visual indicator I can look for to confirm whether a particular vehicle is an M42 or M42A1? (Probably similar to the question of M41/M41A1 vs M41A2?).

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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:54 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Any answers to those questions, guys?

Meanwhile, I've been to the Olso military museum and put a small write up on my blog:

PreservedTanks

I know there are some big fans of M48s on this forum, so here's a close up:



I'll put the rest of the photos online after I get home. The serial no. of the M24 is 5746. The M48 is harder to make out, but appears to be "A10886".

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:50 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Trevor,

SN for the M48A5 sounds correct except the last digit. I believe it should be a "0". US M48A5 SN's ran from A3001 to A3374 with the enclosed .50 Caliber M1 cupola. A3375 to A3999 had the open cupola with M60 7.62 MG, and the same for the final batch A1001-A1999. For some reason an extra digit was added to the end of the SN during a re-build phase. Sometimes it looks like a "C". Not sure why but it's not considered part of it by the manuals. There are not that many M48A5's left in the US to do comparisons. Most being sent overseas like this one or converted to AVLB's and even M247's.

Nice example, other than the Wegman grenade launchers She appears unchanged from US service.

Cannot help you with the M42 vs. M42A1 question, sorry , If I remember right, the serial number's are not marked externally.

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:05 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

- Joe_D
That whole G%$#n thing,

One idiots crusade to name something.

Sometimes I guess it's all a matter of perspective. When I first came in the M60 was the Backbone of the US Army and USMC but was just starting to be replaced by the M1. No one that I could remember ever called them "Patton" during that time. Even my Senior NCO's with close to 20 years never called them Pattons, only occasionally using that term when talking about 48's. Later on as the M1 took over (Very Quickly I might add), most M1 Tankers called us "Sixty" or "Dinosaur" Jockey's. Interesting point is that we mostly used the term "M1" instead of Abrams, I guess because it rolled off the tongue so much easier.

Joe D


Joe
You sorta omitted the 'DAT / CDAT' labels.

DAT = Dumb Ass Tanker = Sixty Tanker

CDAT = Computerized Dumb Ass Tanker = M1 Tanker


Don
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tanker2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

- Dontos


DAT = Dumb Ass Tanker = Sixty Tanker

CDAT = Computerized Dumb Ass Tanker = M1 Tanker


We called the M1 guys "Jedi tankers".
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:47 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

- tanker2010
- Dontos


DAT = Dumb Ass Tanker = Sixty Tanker

CDAT = Computerized Dumb Ass Tanker = M1 Tanker


We called the M1 guys "Jedi tankers".


Thats for the ' A - Deuce ' CDATS,...... Cool

( That is, the 'K4' M1A2 Tankers )

"May the Force be with you...!!" Mr. Green

Don
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

I'm back from Norway.

- Joe_D
SN for the M48A5 sounds correct except the last digit. I believe it should be a "0". ... Sometimes it looks like a "C".


Thanks for that, but I see an extra curve in the digit that looks to me like it should be a 6 - any thoughts? Here's a closeup:



and with a bit of tweaking (mostly higher contrast):



I'm less convinced now about the second digit, so it looks to me like "A10886". I think, however, the last digit may just have been added to the second number, which would agree with what you're suggesting.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Trevor,

Your pictures demonstrate how frustrating it can be to get a correct Serial Number, especially on a tank that has been used many years and handed around like the M48 series.

Here is the same view of the Collegedale TN M48A5

>Larger Image

Notice that the last digit appears to be a "C" or "O", depending on which stamping you trust. Examples like yours are very hard to determine unless you grind the paint down to the bare metal. I'm wondering if it's actually a "Q" indicating a ground up refurbish done at Anniston Alabama, much like the M60A3's had stamped on them when overhauled. I just haven't seen enough M48A5's to prove this theory.

Here is an M60A3

>Larger Image

On this tank you can actually make out the original M60A1 SN 6470. Then you can see the Anniston conversion to A3 SN 2220A. There is also a letter "Q" indicated by the arrow. This was not part of the SN and added later during a rebuild.

Here's of an example of finding the correct number after cleaning off the paint.

>Larger Image

Notice the deck stamping indicates SN 891.

>Larger Image

Now you can see that this tank was from the original batch of 180 M60's made in Newark Delaware, SN 95. I try always to get the SN from the tow lug or hull, never the deck since they get swapped out very easily during maintenance.

Here is an example how old paint can make numbers appear different.

M60A3 rear hull.

>Larger Image

Looks like 2459A or 2458A, doesn't it?

Same tank tow lug after cleaning.

>Larger Image

She's actually 2450A.

Hope this bit of info helps you with M48/M60 series.

Joe D
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:42 am
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Joe,

Thanks for that - a lot to digest! I've thought before I should carry an angle grinder along with my camera and GPS...

I have a growing collection of M48/M60 serial number pictures so I'll work through them, particularly any M48A5s, and see if I can discern a pattern.

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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:21 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

In response to a question from Lesley I've now put the T-72 at Rochester in the database:

T-72, Chili

It includes a walkaround - it's an interesting vehicle with mine plough.

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Trevor

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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:29 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

I'm taking the family on holiday next week - funnily enough, next door to Bovington! My ambitious aim is to attempt a walkaround of all the tanks, however if someone has a particular request for something just let me know and I'll see what I can do.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:06 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

- Joe_D
I do not want a bunch of Former US Army and Marine "Sixty" Tankers (Many who have far more time on them than I) forming a mob to get me.

Now looking over my shoulder,

Joe D


They're aleady out there, Joe, but you know you can never expect to see them in those ninja suits. Wink
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:21 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Trevor,

I know of all the really special vehicles there, to ask for some decent shots of their M60A1 and a serial/ registration number confirmation might sound a bit like going to Paris just to eat at McDonalds. But I have to ask.

Should have been made as a RISE/IR but I'm sure She was upgraded to RISE/Passive if the tank came from war stocks in Germany.

SN and RN should be 8971 and JJ0128 IAW their Website.

Joe D
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:53 pm
Post subject: Re: PreservedTanks.com

Joe_D, no problem. What should I look for to confirm the upgrade and/or is there anything particular on it you want photographed? (As well as the walkaround and serial nos, of course).

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