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Memorials and Monuments controversy
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:46 pm
Post subject: Memorials and Monuments controversy

This might affect the AFV register listing.

Monuments

Base on the court of appeals decision, I guess AL Qaida could erect a monument to their Martyrs along side the 911 victims monument. Either that or tear it down.

Sometimes I wonder about these Judges and what vacuum they live in Mad .

Joe D
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:09 am
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

We really need a throw-uppy smiley face for the forum. I suddenly feel very sick to my stomach.
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:21 am
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

Doug said:

We really need a throw-uppy smiley face for the forum. I suddenly feel very sick to my stomach.


Sounds like a challenge to the "Computer Smart Guys" to make one. After all, we now have a nasty squirrel one .

Joe D
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JWB2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:51 am
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

The operative word here is donated. The decision can therefore be gotten around by having the governmental entity "buy" the monument for 1 US cent. Laughing
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

That is BS. Mad
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binder001
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

The only answer for this court's decision; "WTF?"

Gary
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

- JWB2
The operative word here is donated. The decision can therefore be gotten around by having the governmental entity "buy" the monument for 1 US cent. Laughing


If someone wants to push the issue that won't stop them. We had a '10 Commandments monument' case (also located in a Memorial Park with the War Memorials) a few years back. The city eventually sold the little patch of ground with the monument to the church across the street. I think the opponent went back to court because it was a 'sham sale' and was demanding that the area be physically seperated from the public park. I don't know what the resolution finally was.

Funny thing about many of these 10 Commandment monument cases came out during the process. Frederick's monument, like many of the outdoor ones around the country was donated by the Movie company that made the movie 'The 10 Commandments' as a PR deal back when the movie was being released.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

JWB
The operative word here is donated. The decision can therefore be gotten around by having the governmental entity "buy" the monument for 1 US cent. Laughing


That's one way around it, maybe. I think the root of the complaint falls back on the religious connections, being the city park had the Ten commandments displayed. The decision made was a typical "Shotgun Blast" reaction in my opinion, which was written without looking beyond the original issue of equal representation. It would be a matter of re defining the ruling and limiting it's effects to religious monuments.

I imagine if a monument is over 50 years old it can be listed as a historical site, which could be exempt from further changes-additions under the preservation acts. Those newer monuments can be treated much like the TACOM donations. They can be donated to private groups. Technically they are conditional gifts to private organizations. If the courts rule in favor of this cock-eyed decision this would be an option to preserve their integrity.

Hopefully the higher courts see this for what it is.

Joe D
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

I just went out and googled ' Frederick MD Ten Commandments' to refresh my memory on the case we had here. I came up with several references but two pretty much summed up the result

www.cityoffrederick.co...ommand.htm

www.aclj.org/media/pdf/chambers.pdf

The first one is the citys press release when they sold the land. Turns out they didn't sell it to the church but to the Fraternal Order of the Eagles. But they did do it right. they followed a bid process and sold it for the appraised value. It also says that local veterans organizations had supported the Eagles bid

The second one is the judgement by the U.S. District Court of the subesquent suit (not by the original litigant) who tried to have the sale invalidated. The first paragraph of that is interesting. It tells the story of Cecile B Demille 'distributing 5500 stone copies of the Ten Commandments as a marketing ploy in 1955 with the release of the movie' 5500 is a lot of monuments. I wonder where they all are?

I'm curious if the monument in question now is another of the 'Movie monuments' if so this is a solution that appears to pass muster.

By the way the park is a nice small park with monumnets to veterans of several wars (In Maryland you don't generally find ones to Civil War Veterans) as well as a monument to several bodies that were inturred in an old cemetary that was disrupted years ago. it is right next to the old NG armory.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

This all can be summed up very simply,

Childish behavior and attitude. Reminds me of the kid who has to go over and kick another's sand castle over. He does it because he doesn't have one or his is not as appreciated as much by his pears. So instead of making himself one or being happy with what he has, he has to destroy someone else's to fill a void in character or upbringing. Normally, in the past, this behavior would be punished with a good swat, much like communities would fix a trouble maker (Run out on a Rail). Now days in a mixed up sense of fairness, these loons have more rights than the majority, and their behavior is rewarded by these out of touch Judges who encourage these lawsuits, with the only winners being the Lawyers.

Getting back on "Track" and keeping with the AFV content. I will gladly take any "Homeless" M60's that have to be moved, and will even buy a plot of land to display them, calling it "Sixty Land" and hopefully not confuse any old nostalgic Hippies Laughing

Joe D
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

- Joe_D


I will gladly take any "Homeless" M60's that have to be moved, and will even buy a plot of land to display them, calling it "Sixty Land" and hopefully not confuse any old nostalgic Hippies Laughing

Joe D


You can't exclude the 'hippies' just add restored 60s era VW Vans, and you got that covered. Besides, those 'hippies' grew up (well, sorta),.....just ask Doug!! Laughing Shocked


Don
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

- Dontos
- Joe_D


I will gladly take any "Homeless" M60's that have to be moved, and will even buy a plot of land to display them, calling it "Sixty Land" and hopefully not confuse any old nostalgic Hippies Laughing

Joe D


You can't exclude the 'hippies' just add restored 60s era VW Vans, and you got that covered. Besides, those 'hippies' grew up (well, sorta),.....just ask Doug!! Laughing Shocked


Don



Whooooa.... I think Joe has a groovy idea there. Far out!

You think I bought this in a hardware store? Wink

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

That turret blower fan was used for more than clearing out cordite fumes back in the day Mr. Green (I was told).

Whoa Doug,

Get some Lava Lamps, Black lights, and Incense and It probably be your barracks room/ apartment Wink .

Joe D
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

- Joe_D
That turret blower fan was used for more than clearing out cordite fumes back in the day Mr. Green (I was told).

Whoa Doug,

Get some Lava Lamps, Black lights, and Incense and It probably be your barracks room/ apartment Wink .

Joe D


Joe,
You should see that poster under black light. I'm gettin' off just thinkin' about it.

(I have the original, acquired at what was the head shoppe in the now defunct RedMar Plaza shopping center off Wilson Road in Radcliff)


The incense is not from Jennifer's House of Patchouli Aromatherapy. Wink

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piney
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Memorials and Monuments controversy

Brings Shakespeare to mind
''The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers,'' Twisted Evil
Henry VI part II

Piney
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