±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 669
Total: 669
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Statistics
06: Community Forums
07: Your Account
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Downloads
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Photo Gallery
19: Home
20: Home
21: Home
22: Home
23: Downloads
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: CPGlang
38: Photo Gallery
39: Community Forums
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Downloads
44: Statistics
45: Your Account
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Home
50: Photo Gallery
51: Home
52: Photo Gallery
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Statistics
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Home
78: Home
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Downloads
82: Community Forums
83: News Archive
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: News
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: CPGlang
91: Downloads
92: Photo Gallery
93: Photo Gallery
94: Downloads
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Downloads
98: Photo Gallery
99: News Archive
100: Community Forums
101: News
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Downloads
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: CPGlang
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Photo Gallery
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Home
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Photo Gallery
130: Community Forums
131: Downloads
132: Community Forums
133: CPGlang
134: Photo Gallery
135: Photo Gallery
136: Home
137: News
138: Community Forums
139: CPGlang
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Downloads
144: Community Forums
145: Your Account
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Home
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: News Archive
164: Your Account
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Downloads
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Photo Gallery
176: Photo Gallery
177: Community Forums
178: Downloads
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: News
184: Home
185: Home
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Photo Gallery
192: Photo Gallery
193: Member Screenshots
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: CPGlang
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Home
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Photo Gallery
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Downloads
223: Photo Gallery
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Downloads
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Member Screenshots
232: Community Forums
233: Home
234: Community Forums
235: Photo Gallery
236: Community Forums
237: CPGlang
238: Community Forums
239: CPGlang
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Your Account
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Member Screenshots
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Photo Gallery
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Photo Gallery
259: Photo Gallery
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Your Account
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Your Account
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Home
278: Statistics
279: Community Forums
280: Member Screenshots
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: Downloads
286: Community Forums
287: Home
288: News
289: Community Forums
290: CPGlang
291: Downloads
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Photo Gallery
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Photo Gallery
306: Downloads
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Member Screenshots
329: Photo Gallery
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: News Archive
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Photo Gallery
341: Downloads
342: CPGlang
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Downloads
346: Community Forums
347: Member Screenshots
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Community Forums
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Statistics
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Your Account
360: Home
361: Home
362: Photo Gallery
363: Community Forums
364: Member Screenshots
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Photo Gallery
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Your Account
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Home
382: Photo Gallery
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Photo Gallery
386: Photo Gallery
387: CPGlang
388: Home
389: Home
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Statistics
395: Community Forums
396: Downloads
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Photo Gallery
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Photo Gallery
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Member Screenshots
421: Home
422: Home
423: Photo Gallery
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Home
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Downloads
449: Photo Gallery
450: Photo Gallery
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: CPGlang
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Photo Gallery
459: Home
460: Your Account
461: Community Forums
462: Photo Gallery
463: Community Forums
464: CPGlang
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: Home
470: Downloads
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Home
476: Photo Gallery
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Photo Gallery
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: CPGlang
494: CPGlang
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Downloads
502: Community Forums
503: Statistics
504: Home
505: Photo Gallery
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Statistics
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Member Screenshots
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: CPGlang
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Home
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Home
528: Photo Gallery
529: Community Forums
530: CPGlang
531: Community Forums
532: Home
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Home
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Photo Gallery
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: CPGlang
544: Community Forums
545: Home
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Home
553: Photo Gallery
554: Photo Gallery
555: Your Account
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Photo Gallery
559: Community Forums
560: Home
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Photo Gallery
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Member Screenshots
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Home
579: Home
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: CPGlang
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Photo Gallery
594: Community Forums
595: Downloads
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Photo Gallery
599: CPGlang
600: Community Forums
601: Photo Gallery
602: Home
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Your Account
607: Photo Gallery
608: Downloads
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: CPGlang
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Your Account
618: Photo Gallery
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Downloads
624: Community Forums
625: News
626: Member Screenshots
627: Community Forums
628: Community Forums
629: Member Screenshots
630: Photo Gallery
631: Community Forums
632: Member Screenshots
633: Community Forums
634: Photo Gallery
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Photo Gallery
638: Community Forums
639: Downloads
640: Photo Gallery
641: Community Forums
642: News
643: Photo Gallery
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Home
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Home
652: Community Forums
653: Photo Gallery
654: Downloads
655: CPGlang
656: Photo Gallery
657: Community Forums
658: Community Forums
659: Photo Gallery
660: Photo Gallery
661: Home
662: Community Forums
663: Photo Gallery
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Community Forums
668: News
669: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Churchill tank in use in US forces?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:07 pm
Post subject: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

Hello,

I wonder if the Churchill tank was ever in use in the US Army forces during WW2, or at least used by UK troops in US fighting zones.
I've seen a photo of US troops on a Churchill tank and there is a Churchill Crocodile as a monument in Brest (France), which was a city liberated by the US troops in August 1944. The tank is said to have been used because of its flamethrower, to conquer a fortress. Any guess?

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

I think most pictures of Churchills with US troops would be in one of two instances

1) During Market Garden US paratroopers teamed up with British armor as it moved up the series of landing zones

2) later in the War US troops under 9th Army were put under 21st Army Group (Montgomery) control and worked with British troops. They were the Army on the leftmost flank of the 12 Army Group (Bradley) and were put under 21 AG control since they were on the North side of the Bulge in late December '44. They remained under 21 AG control through the Rhineland campaign so it is possible that at times they had Churchill unis assisting.

The 9th Army had also been used to cature Brest when they were first made operational (September '44?) but I don't know if they used any Churchills at that time. I can see where some sloppy research would be looking for info about 9th Army planning on using it for the early operations, find pictures tagged as 9th Army from later and connect the two

As a caveat I did this off the cuff from memory so you may want to look into the details further

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
binder001
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

There were several instances of specialized armour from 79 Armoured Division working with US troops in the ETO. I don't have my references right in front of me but I know that Churchill Crocodiles were used to support US troops during the Roer River campaign, and I think other.

Gary
Back to top
View user's profile
Dubliner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

No operational American Churchills that I can recall in David Fletcher's books, but he does not cover all the "funnies" used in ETO and MTO. Churchill didn't reach the Australians until the war in the Pacific was almost over, so PTO cases for sure.

As far as operating with Churchills...

I believe Churchills of the Guards Armored Brigade (Coldstream or Grenader Guards Battalion I don't remember which one) gave a lift to the 82nd Airborne during Varsity. There are several well know pictures of Churchills loaded down with American Paras after the jump across the Rhine.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

Thanks for your replies.

The photo showing troops on a Churchill could show either paratroopers or troops of the 9th Army. On the photo, one can see a GI with a Sturmgewehr rifle, so the picture may have been taken rather in 1945, IMO.

I said that Brest was liberated in August 1944, but it was indeed in mid-September 1944, Bob you're right.

I've found a website explaining that the liberation of the Fort Montbarey in Brest required the use of flamethrower tanks. The US troops didn't have any of that kind of tanks, so they asked the British troops to carry one there, to conquer the Fort.

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

not a match, but an interesting tidbit I came across that I hadn't seen refered to before

It was during this time that the Corps discovered that British Churchill tanks could be fitted with guns from wrecked U.S. Sherman tanks. Since the guns of the Sherman tank could use a wider range of ammunition, substituting the Sherman gun extended the capability of the Churchill tank. The Corps outfitted two tank regiments with Sherman guns, and those regiments served in Italy.


source here

www.almc.army.mil/alog.../MS875.htm

Piney
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
claude_GILLONO
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

It's true some Crocodiles were used to support the US Forces that liberated Brest, with British crews.
HTH
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

- claude_GILLONO
It's true some Crocodiles were used to support the US Forces that liberated Brest, with British crews.
HTH

I don't doubt you but for completeness do you have a reference?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Shadow_Banshee
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 575

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

www.rapid-fire.uk.com/...fences.pdf from a game but mentions units etc maybe the senario is taken from fact??
pagesperso-orange.fr/a...cit4an.htm

_________________
Lay me place and bake me Pie
I'm starving for me Gravy
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

- Shadow_Banshee
http://www.rapid-fire.uk.com/brest_defences.pdf from a game but mentions units etc maybe the senario is taken from fact??


Well it's a start Smile I've got some stuff on the 29th Division I'll have to dig out and see if it mentions it. With the 29th being the local National Guard Divison I've gathered a couple books on it

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

- piney
not a match, but an interesting tidbit I came across that I hadn't seen refered to before

It was during this time that the Corps discovered that British Churchill tanks could be fitted with guns from wrecked U.S. Sherman tanks. Since the guns of the Sherman tank could use a wider range of ammunition, substituting the Sherman gun extended the capability of the Churchill tank. The Corps outfitted two tank regiments with Sherman guns, and those regiments served in Italy.


source here

www.almc.army.mil/alog.../MS875.htm

Piney


It was called the N.A.75 . The N.A. stood for Noth Africa. They were used quite a bit in Italy.
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

Recently I read an article by one of the officers in charge of that project explaining what was involved to make it work. There were challanges such as the loader and gunner being on opposite sides of the turret in the two tanks that had to be overcome. I wish I could remember where I read it

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Jason_Bobrowich
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

- bsmart
- claude_GILLONO
It's true some Crocodiles were used to support the US Forces that liberated Brest, with British crews.
HTH

I don't doubt you but for completeness do you have a reference?


Pick up Osprey's "Churchill Infantry Tank 1941-1951".

There is text describing the actions of Churchills of 9 RTR and the 147 Regiment in support of the U.S. 10th Division in October 1944.

There is further text about the 6th Guards Tank Brigade supporting the U.S. 17th Airborne Division across the Rhine and then on to Munster.

There is an image of a 4th Coldstream Guards Churchill I would think taken in early 1945 with a bunch of U.S. 17th Airborne Division Troopers catching a casual ride on the back deck.
Back to top
View user's profile
Tanklord
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

Bob, I am like you, I read the same article about changing the guns in the Churchill. I am at work, but I think it may be in one of this past years AFV News.
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Churchill tank in use in US forces?

- Jason_Bobrowich
- bsmart
- claude_GILLONO
It's true some Crocodiles were used to support the US Forces that liberated Brest, with British crews.
HTH

I don't doubt you but for completeness do you have a reference?


Pick up Osprey's "Churchill Infantry Tank 1941-1951".

There is text describing the actions of Churchills of 9 RTR and the 147 Regiment in support of the U.S. 10th Division in October 1944.

There is further text about the 6th Guards Tank Brigade supporting the U.S. 17th Airborne Division across the Rhine and then on to Munster.

There is an image of a 4th Coldstream Guards Churchill I would think taken in early 1945 with a bunch of U.S. 17th Airborne Division Troopers catching a casual ride on the back deck.


I was specifically looking for ant reference to them being used against Brest in august/September 1944. Given my comments about U.S. 9th Army being attached to 21 AG in late 44 I have no doubt they supported US troops in the surge into Germany

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum