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"New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:13 pm
Post subject: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

The Ordnance "Museum" staff have re-acquired some old data plates.

This will probably make any of you in the museum / volunteer business cringe...

Apparently JB Jarrett _gave_ away some data plates to one of his employees. His son or grandson inherited them, was downsizing his stuff, and gave them back to the museum (ie ~60 or so years later). Or at least that's the story... Thankfully he didnt try to sell them on eBay!

So,%20here%20they%20are.%20Some%20seem%20to%20lineup%20with%20known%20current/former%20vehicles,%20others%20are%20mysteries.%20 PzKpfw%20I%20Ausf%20F%20-%20that%20would%20be%20the%20heavily%20armored%20infantry%20assault%20version.%20The%20only%20PzKpfw%20I%20that%20have%20info%20on%20is%20the%20Ausf%20B. PzKpfw%20II%20Ausf%20? PzKpfw%20III PzKpfw%20III%20Ausf%20N PzKpfw%20IV%20Ausf%20? PzKpfw%20V%20Panther%20Ausf%20? PzKpfw%20V%20Panther%20Ausf%20?

Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:37 pm; edited 3 times in total
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:18 pm
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks

I see "Panther Ausf G" on both of the bottom plates

P-O

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BruceClark
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:56 pm
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

Just out of curiosity why were all the data plates removed?
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:20 pm
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

I am assuming that removing the data plates was one of Jarrett's standard practices. Since the interiors were not on display I guess they felt that it was a better way to document them? Many of the plates were put into glass display cases, which may have been part of a display at some point in the museum's history. That being said, much of the data plate info did not appear to make its way into the museum's logs...

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

Comparing data plates to the museum's inventory/logs:

PzKpfw I Ausf F

I only have info on the Ausf B (FMCV9, no SN info, now at Fort Lee). No info on an Ausf F ever being in the collection.

www.williammaloney.com.../index.htm

PzKpfw II Ausf ?

Looks like it might say Ausf L? Which would make it a Luchs. I only have info on a PzKpfw II Ausf F (FMCV34, no SN info) in the collection - formerly at the Panzermuseum Munster, then in Wheatcroft's hands, now in storage at an airbase in the UK.

PzKpfw IIIs

There were five in the museum's collection - and I dont have SN info for any of them already:

1 Ausf L (FMCV25) www.primeportal.net/ta...anzer_iii/

2 Ausf N:
FMCV12 - A "frankentank" with a 37mm gun www.flickr.com/photos/...474291167/
FMCV87 smg.photobucket.com/al...0Ausf%20N/

Additionally 2 PzKpfw IIIs listed in the Inactive Files:
FMCV203 - Simply identified as PzKpfw III 3.7cm. Fate unknown, which probably means scrapped. img.photobucket.com/al...pfwIII.jpg

FMCV204 - Simply identified as PzKpfw III 5.0cm. Fate unknown, which probably means scrapped.

PzKpfw IVs

Three were originally in the collection:

PzKpfw IV Ausf D/E/F (FMCV57, no SN info) - Another "frankentank," with FMCV12's 75mm gun. Now at Fort Lee. www.primeportal.net/ta...e_walk.htm

Ausf F2/G (FMCV23, SN 83534) - Now at Fort Benning. www.primeportal.net/ta...php?Page=4

PzKpfw IV Ausf FG mit hydrostatischen Antrieb (FMCV193, no SN info) - Still at APG? www.williammaloney.com.../index.htm

PzKpfw V Panthers

Ausf A (FMCV184, SN 152158) Now at Fort Benning. www.williammaloney.com.../index.htm

Ausf G (FMCV76, no SN info) Still at APG? www.flickr.com/photos/...474291167/

If anyone knows how the serial numbers relate to the Ausf that might be able to help narrow some of these down.

Neil
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rynoki
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:09 am
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updat

What would a data plate be worth these days?
Say for a Pz IV Ausf D, x-Nth African campaign. VGC.
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Walter
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:50 am
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

Hi Neil

Any chance that the dataplate of the 1 ton german halftrack
is availlable now ?

Walter
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

Neil If I remember correctly there was a Pz IIIN in the old Belair Rd fenced lot. Back corner along the same side as the M12 and the M4A2 HVSS DD tank

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:39 pm
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

Bob,
See above - there were two PzKpfw III Ausf Ns.

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:24 pm
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

I remember the discussion here about the bastardized PZ III but I never remember it being considered an N model so I'll admit I didn't read the header where it was listed

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:02 pm
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

Checking against Panzer Profiles:

The PzKpfw II chassis number 200131 does match an Ausf L (Luchs). No Ausf L previously listed in the museum inventory.

PzKpfw III chassis number 65747 matches an Ausf G. Could it be this one (no Ausf recorded)? img.photobucket.com/al...pfwIII.jpg

PzKpfw III chassis number 74883 does match an Ausf N (converted from an Ausf N). That could make it FMCV12, FMCV87 or a previously unknown third example.

I cant make out the PzKpfw IV chassis number.

Panther chassis number 124315 appears to match an Ausf G. This could match FMCV76 or a second unknown example. I cant make out the second Panther chassis number.

Neil
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:28 am
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

Neil

Perhaps one of those data plates are from this 'unknown' APG Panther used for impact testing in July 45.....



I happened upon this photo several years ago in the Museums old archives.

Regards
Don
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:41 am
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

The second Panther fahrgestellnummer seem to be ending with ''452''. This after some enlargement and some colourchanges.

On the picture the number 210750 is mentioned. Is this a number that falls in range with hullnumbers assigned to Panthers.
Regards,
Lesley
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

I just had a wrench thrown in the works. For example, I was told that the current FMCV184 Panther Ausf A is not the original one, the one that came from Italy. Supposedly, that one, from Italy, was destroyed in testing. The Museum supposedly had something like 19 Panther Ausf As in 1945 - all listed under "FMCV184." When the Italian one was destroyed, they replaced it with another example - captured from an SS unit in Normandy...

If correct, this means that you pretty much have to take anything from Tank Data, the museum guide CD, etc with a small grain of salt...

Will post more if/when I know it...

Neil
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Pzkpfw-e
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:57 am
Post subject: Re: "New" Ordnance Museum Data Plates #1 German Tanks (updated)

It's no great surprise,in the UK, the number of afvs that went to Bovington & have disappeared with no record (Sturmtiger, for one, just its mortar is left) of when & where they were disposed of.
Ditto in the USA, for the various captured planes, many of which were junked when the hanger space they were taking up, was needed for producing "live" aircraft, when the Korean War broke out.
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