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First images of the Aussie Abrams
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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buglerbilly
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:04 pm
Post subject: First images of the Aussie Abrams

Hot off the press so to speak; in itself this is a pretty dramatic event seeing as the Head of the Armed Forces a few years ago said Australia doesn't want Heavy Armour!

Mind you all sorts of stuff was "not" wanted a few years ago, and now we are buying C-17's fer crissakes!



Regards,

BUG
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

Cool.... Welcome to the club!!

What is the 'box' mounted to the side of the GPS (primary sight) 'doghouse'?

(just above the smoke grenade box w/ the kangaroo symbol on it)

I'd love to see more, with all the 'kit' mounted.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

Ammo rack for flex-mount .50 or something, maybe? (right hand feed?)
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:29 pm
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- buglerbilly
Hot off the press so to speak; in itself this is a pretty dramatic event seeing as the Head of the Armed Forces a few years ago said Australia doesn't want Heavy Armour!

Regards,

BUG


Hi Bug! Hi Folks!

I like the Australia national marking.

I hate the black star that has been placed on some US vehicles. Evil or Very Mad

As for the passed Head of the Armed Forces saying Australia doesn't want Heavy Armor, it wasn't that long ago that the Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army was sounding like he didn't want the heavy armor we already had. Sad

There was a trend developing that the tank was dead again but Iraq de-railed that idea.

Thanks for the photo Bug!

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:21 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

Hi everyone,
Hey Dontos, That box is FBCB2. It looks like an M1A1 AIM straight out of rebuild. Curious why they didn't get/request an A2 SEP?

Joe D
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:01 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Joe_D
Hi everyone,
Hey Dontos, That box is FBCB2. It looks like an M1A1 AIM straight out of rebuild. Curious why they didn't get/request an A2 SEP?

Joe D


Hi Joe! Hi Folks!

My guess would be the cost.
AIMs today, can always upgrade to A2 later. Confused



Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:27 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

Hey Joe

I would stick to the M1A1 AIM. Its a whole lot easier to mess with. Especially as a 'start up' tank. Logistic requirements would tend to be lower $$'s.

I never 'played' on an 'AIM', but I always loved the -A1. Personally, I felt that if give me an '-A1' with all the 'bells & whistles' and I would be happy.

'A-Deuce' is a different breed. Takes getting used to, when coming off an -A1.

I really like that FBCB2, though! Externally mounted? Thats BAD JU-JU!

It will be interesting to see what paint scheme the Aussies use.

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Sabot
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:29 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

Looks cool, but just like any other Abrams tank! I was hoping for some cool Austrailian camouflage scheme. They going with the Army or Marine style grenade launchers? The mounts look like Army-style.

Caution OT content:
...it wasn't that long ago that the Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army was sounding like he didn't want the heavy armor we already had.


He never said that nor was he a proponent for getting rid of our heavy armor. He just wanted to have a medium weight deployable force with more staying power than the light/airborne force. Two units he initially turned into Stryker Brigades, the 25th ID (Light) and 2nd ACR (Light), were both light units. Yes, we are turning some heavy units into Stryker Brigades (2ID comes to mind), but will still have more heavy forces than light or medium (active duty end state: 18 Infantry BCT, 20 Hvy BCT, 5 Stryker BCT)

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:42 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Joe_D
Hi everyone,
Hey Dontos, That box is FBCB2. It looks like an M1A1 AIM straight out of rebuild. Curious why they didn't get/request an A2 SEP?

Joe D



Does the M1A1 AIM have the DU armor? I seem to remember that the Ausstralians did not want that feature.

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:28 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Sabot


...it wasn't that long ago that the Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army was sounding like he didn't want the heavy armor we already had.


He never said that nor was he a proponent for getting rid of our heavy armor. He just wanted to have a medium weight deployable force with more staying power than the light/airborne force.


Hi Sabot! Hi Folks!

Maybe Gen. Shinseki didn't mean to sound like he was, but back in October 1999, he announced plans to:
deploy a combat brigade anywhere within 96 hours, followed by
a full division in 120 hours, that followed by
a corps of five divisions on the ground in 30 days.

No where in all that deploying did he say those 15 BCTs would ALL be medium. However there was a lot of follow on 'talking heads' in the news that sure made it sound like he was talking about converting most of the Army into medium weight units so the Army could be airlifted into a problem area.

If we count the 82nd AB, 101st Air Assault, the 10th Mountain, with five medium divisions, that only left two out of the ten we had.

There have been a number of magazine articles that have made it sound like at the Dept. of Army level and DOD level, tank was a four letter dirty word. Just look at the problem with Abrams engine, (wasn't Ken Estes who reported on the old site that after 'major combat was completed' the Army and Marines ONLY have THREE spare packs left in the supply system) which has been cut out of almost every budget sence Gen. Shinseki's, I am going to make the Army lighter so it can deploy and from out here in West Texas, it had been sounding like the American Tank was about to die again.

It may well be, the General was not 'a proponent for getting rid of our heavy armor'. But it was during his watch that the heavy forces became labeled "Legacy". Legacy as in we are stuck with this old Cold War Era junk and we plan to get rid of it as fast as we can field the state of the art, C-130 transportable FCS. The FCS vehicles at about 20 tons or so = death of the heavy forces.

That is my read on what Generel Shinseki was a 'proponet' of. Sad
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:43 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Roy_A_Lingle

That is my read on what Generel Shinseki was a 'proponet' of. Sad
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile



...and berets....let's not forget he was a champion proponent of berets.

"To symbolize The Army's commitment to transforming itself into the Objective Force, The Army will adopt the black beret for wear Army-wide. It is not about increasing recruiting; we achieved our recruiting target of 180,000 recruits last year--without a beret. It is not about retention; for the second year in a row, we exceeded our reenlistment goal by a wide margin--without a beret. It is not about morale; Soldiers are ready today to go into harm's way. It is about our excellence as Soldiers, our unity as a force, and our values as an institution.

Effective 14 June 2001, the first Army birthday in the new millennium, the black beret will become standard wear in The Army--Active and Reserve Components. Sergeant Major of the Army Tilley will lead the effort to craft implementing guidelines, including indoctrination standards that all Soldiers will meet before they are authorized to wear the beret. Special operations and airborne units will retain their distinctive berets.

Soldiers remain the centerpiece of our formation. We will march into the next millennium as The Army--the strategic joint force of choice for the 21st century."

SHINSEKI

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:46 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Sabot


but will still have more heavy forces than light or medium (active duty end state: 18 Infantry BCT, 20 Hvy BCT, 5 Stryker BCT)



Hi Sabot! Hi Folks!

I agree, but that is the plan today, not what it was sounding like back in October 1999 when the General stood up with a new direction for the Army.

Question Sir, 5 Stryker BCTs? Shocked

A number of articles I have seen lately are saying seven (7) SBCTs. Six (6) active and one (1) National Guard. I am also seeing aritcles that report a total of six (6) with five (5) active SBCTs.

Just wondering sense I have the impression your are active duty at the Home of Armor.

Just food for the discussion. Smile Smile Smile Smile
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:58 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Doug_Kibbey
- Roy_A_Lingle

That is my read on what Generel Shinseki was a 'proponet' of. Sad
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile



...and berets....let's not forget he was a champion proponent of berets.

"To symbolize The Army's commitment to transforming itself into the Objective Force, The Army will adopt the black beret for wear Army-wide. It is not about increasing recruiting; we achieved our recruiting target of 180,000 recruits last year--without a beret. It is not about retention; for the second year in a row, we exceeded our reenlistment goal by a wide margin--without a beret. It is not about morale; Soldiers are ready today to go into harm's way. It is about our excellence as Soldiers, our unity as a force, and our values as an institution.

Effective 14 June 2001, the first Army birthday in the new millennium, the black beret will become standard wear in The Army--Active and Reserve Components. Sergeant Major of the Army Tilley will lead the effort to craft implementing guidelines, including indoctrination standards that all Soldiers will meet before they are authorized to wear the beret. Special operations and airborne units will retain their distinctive berets.

Soldiers remain the centerpiece of our formation. We will march into the next millennium as The Army--the strategic joint force of choice for the 21st century."

SHINSEKI



Okay. First of all, I don't mind sharing my TANKER BERET with the rest of the Army, they just need to learn how to wear the SOB properly.

The Ranger/Airborne community can suck eggs.....it was stolen from us, when the BDU cap came along. (WHAT....now MY patrol cap isn't special anymore!?!? I WANT A BLACK BERET then....)

I know I'm opening myself up to flak, but IT IS MY OPINION! (as he thrusts the guidon into the dirt, and checks his weapons....This ground I shall defend, without waivering... Shocked ) Mr. Green

But seriously....

Gen Shinseki got a bad rap, and I am, by NO means, a fan. At least he faded away, unlike Others that try to tromp around and 'PRETEND' they were the 'SOLDIERS, SOLDIER'.

Don't make me tell you about the 'Clark Box' ....(aka 'Kevorkian Box' as the OC's at NTC called it in 93...)

....drink and forget...(as he takes a deep breath) Cool

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:03 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Doug_Kibbey
- Roy_A_Lingle

That is my read on what Generel Shinseki was a 'proponet' of. Sad
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile



...and berets....let's not forget he was a champion proponent of berets.

"To symbolize The Army's commitment to transforming itself into the Objective Force,

We will march into the next millennium as The Army--the strategic joint force of choice for the 21st century."

SHINSEKI



Thanks Dong!

Those two sentences from the General's speech about the black berets scream death to the legancy forces equipment to me. The Objective Force equipment is the light weight FCS which is/was being planned for every BCT.

An example of what I think Gerneral Shinseki was really thinking. Sad

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:26 am
Post subject: Re: First images of the Aussie Abrams

- Roy_A_Lingle

Thanks Dong!



"Dong"?!....have some of those old movies I did under my stage name when I was young turn up on the internet? Shocked (or have you been into my stash of VN piasters....?)

Actually, what got my attention apart from the anti-Legacy stuff was this:

..."implementing guidelines and indoctrination standards"....

...for headgear....Jeezus! Rolling Eyes

Sorry, I have a low threshold for bureaucratic New-Army-Speak BS.
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