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4th ID museum M18, M24, M41
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:07 pm
Post subject: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41


These three vehicles are from the 4th ID museum. I love these particular and somewhat obscure tanks. The M24 had a strange little plate attached to the front hull. Almost unreadable till I rubbed my sweaty hand over it a few times. Who can decipher this? Then there is the M41 plate that was on the right rear hull. It read 2323 (space)2313, across the top of the plate, and 89, 91, 98, 115 in the blocks as the descended down in the left blocks. Are these top numbers serial numbers? I looked all over these vehicles and really couldn't find any numbers like I do on M60's and the such. The paint wasn't even on thick so I dont suspect they were covered, I could be wrong.

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

Jeff, thats a a French army rebuild plate - from E.R.G.M.E.B. Not sure what it stands for, but its like a state depot. They apparently have a museum there, but I've never seen any pics of it...

Anyway, you see those E.R.G.M.E.B. plates on a surprising number of tanks in the US. The Fort Snelling Military Museum's M26 Pershing has one for example...

Neil
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

A "subdued" star on an M24 just seems so wrong!
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:46 pm
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

- Neil_Baumgardner
Jeff, thats a a French army rebuild plate - from E.R.G.M.E.B. Not sure what it stands for, but its like a state depot. They apparently have a museum there, but I've never seen any pics of it...

Anyway, you see those E.R.G.M.E.B. plates on a surprising number of tanks in the US. The Fort Snelling Military Museum's M26 Pershing has one for example...

Neil


Jacques Littlefield's Chaffee has the same plate too.

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:16 pm
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

That "subdued" star is actually where a sticker, star has peeled off and left the less faded image. I noticed that they use alot of the stickers at both museums. Not a bad idea if they stay on, creates less layers which eventually hide stampings and such.
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jcneel
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:23 pm
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

- Doug_Kibbey
A "subdued" star on an M24 just seems so wrong!


From what I remember from when I was there a couple of years ago, a lot of the stars and registration numbers were actually sticker type decals (or whatever) rather than painted on. Where the stars would peel off would show paint that hasn't been exposed to the sun as long and therefore not faded.

Check out the stars on this photo of the M10 from back then...




cn
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:24 pm
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

Thanks, Guys....my faith was shaken there for a moment... Rolling Eyes
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:43 am
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

I will eventually get to all the vehicles on post. I figure any Sherman varient desrves its own thread, and It will take a while to compile those here. They are all over the post!

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:36 am
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

- Neil_Baumgardner
Jeff, thats a a French army rebuild plate - from E.R.G.M.E.B. Not sure what it stands for, but its like a state depot. They apparently have a museum there, but I've never seen any pics of it...

Anyway, you see those E.R.G.M.E.B. plates on a surprising number of tanks in the US. The Fort Snelling Military Museum's M26 Pershing has one for example...

Neil


ERGMEB = Etablissement de Réserve Générale de Matériel d'Engins Blindés
It would be translated like this : Armored Vehicles Material General Reserve Warehouse or Barracks (is it understandable?)
There was an ERGMEB at Gien in France but it was renamed recently.

On the plate you can read :
ERGMEB GIEN
Reconstruit (Rebuilt) 18.10.61 (October 18, 1961)
N° de Cde (Order Number) : PV 1/7 66

Pierre-Olivier

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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:11 am
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

Thanks for the information, I will pass it along to the museum. Am I to understand that this tank was re-built on 18 Oct 1961, and possibly returned stateside 1/7/66?

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palic
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:31 am
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

This M-24 attracts my interest.
I would say this Chaffee seems to be one of war production vehicles – there are no dozer blade fittings on frontal armour and no swiming apparatus fittings on front and rear armour plates. Tracks installed are postwar ones, right?
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 8:48 am
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

- SFC_Jeff_Button
Thanks for the information, I will pass it along to the museum. Am I to understand that this tank was re-built on 18 Oct 1961, and possibly returned stateside 1/7/66?


No, it was rebuilt in France in 18 Oct 1961, and I think that this plate was applied this precise day. But until you find a transfer/transportation paper there is no possibility to know when it was returned back to the USA. I think that these tanks were borrowed to France, I don't know if it is thanks to the lend-lease program or the Marschall plan, but it seems that a lot of these were returned back (as Neil said, a great number of tanks in the US carry these French plates..).

An M-24 Chaffee which is located at Oberhoffen, Bas-Rhin, France, carries the plate with the following :

ERGMEB GIEN
Reconstruit le 13.9.61
N° de Cde PV 1/6 54

and the Chaffee was never returned to the States. So the "N° de Commande" is definitely not the date when it was returned to the States. It's a contract number or something like that.

Pierre-Olivier

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

Hi Folks!

- the_shadock

I think that these tanks were borrowed to France, I don't know if it is thanks to the lend-lease program or the Marschall plan, but it seems that a lot of these were returned back (as Neil said, a great number of tanks in the US carry these French plates..).
Pierre-Olivier


I wonder if rather that vehicles ONLY used by the Frence forces, some of those vehicles where used by the 7th US Army and that Frence depot also rebuild them for the US and other NATO forces.

Everyone of the M42 Dusters on display here at Ft. Bliss has that type of plate on their rear lower hull plates.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:51 pm
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

I've seen a couple Dusters in Delaware & maryland and they have similar plates. I always assumed it was a way of keeping track of modifications without having a forms binder around.

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:28 pm
Post subject: Re: 4th ID museum M18, M24, M41

- bsmart
I've seen a couple Dusters in Delaware & maryland and they have similar plates. I always assumed it was a way of keeping track of modifications without having a forms binder around.



I posted this a couple of years ago, but this is from the M42 at Fort McCoy Wi.



Don
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