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THE MOVE.....(update)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Dontos
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Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:31 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don
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Vivman
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:49 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Dontos
Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don


STORED! NOT DISPLAYED? Are any of the multitude of tanks being sent to Benning going to be viewable by the public? If not, that would be a crime! Sorry if this has been discussed before, I am coming late to the conversation, but why are they moving everything from Knox to Benning? Will there be anything left at Knox?

Thanks,

Tony
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:05 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Vivman
- Dontos
Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don


STORED! NOT DISPLAYED? Are any of the multitude of tanks being sent to Benning going to be viewable by the public? If not, that would be a crime! Sorry if this has been discussed before, I am coming late to the conversation, but why are they moving everything from Knox to Benning? Will there be anything left at Knox?

Thanks,

Tony


Vivman,

Here's a thread to bring you up to speed. Several pages, should answer most of your questions. As the Armor School is moving, so goes the museum (apart from the Patton artifacts).

Same is happening with the APG Ordnance School from Aberdeen to Ft. Lee.

www.com-central.net/in...mp;t=12224
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Vivman
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:47 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Doug_Kibbey
- Vivman
- Dontos
Trevor

The M47 in the above photo (train loaded) is SN 3200.

Just when you thought you were caught up, everything changes....

All these vehicles will be stored at Sand Hill storage lot on Ft Benning.

Regards
Don


STORED! NOT DISPLAYED? Are any of the multitude of tanks being sent to Benning going to be viewable by the public? If not, that would be a crime! Sorry if this has been discussed before, I am coming late to the conversation, but why are they moving everything from Knox to Benning? Will there be anything left at Knox?

Thanks,

Tony


Vivman,

Here's a thread to bring you up to speed. Several pages, should answer most of your questions. As the Armor School is moving, so goes the museum (apart from the Patton artifacts).

Same is happening with the APG Ordnance School from Aberdeen to Ft. Lee.

www.com-central.net/in...mp;t=12224


Thank you, Doug!
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Dontos
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Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:39 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

3 Nov update:

Yesterday while in RMP,.....This is to be a 10-20 vehicle convoy in the next two days which will deposit the tanks 'Sand Hill' (Ft Benning)

The process is a bit interesting. The manifested vehicles are lined up, then as trucks arrive, they are hoisted into the air (the tanks...), before the trucks roll under the tank, its weight is verified by a scale in the crane.

When verified based off of the contracted weight, the truck rolls under the tank, it is lowered then secured to the trailer.



The funny thing is the S tank exceeded the 'contracted' weight by 10 tons (!?) She was lowered and put on 'hold' the paperwork will have to be redone to move her.

Instead, the Centurion was hoisted onto a truck.

More to follow
Regards
Don
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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Actually, the Centurion was also too heavy. They finally loaded the Type 69 and Leopard I prototype. They are going to return with bigger trucks (8-axle) and new permits.

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bsmart
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Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

How do you miscalculate the weight of a known vehicle by 10 tons??? If it was a typo in the contracting documents someone should have caught it by looking at standard references. If anything I could have expected the actual weight to be less than published data (If published data is loaded with equipment, fuel and ammo and the museum vehicle is empty) Are there that many layers of paint on it? Rolling Eyes Mr. Green

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vagabond
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Location: Constantly moving across US
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:23 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

It's because on my backstage tour with Dontos, I snuck off and filled the tanks with gold bullion!!! After the shipment to GA we open them up and finance the damn museum!!

Attempted levity!
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JWB2
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:44 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- vagabond
It's because on my backstage tour with Dontos, I snuck off and filled the tanks with gold bullion!!! After the shipment to GA we open them up and finance the damn museum!!

Attempted levity!


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Dontos
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Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:01 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

The base reference for weight estimation was 'Janes'. I guess the published weight was an earlier model, or something. I don't know

Bob: Would 'lead based' paint be heavier...??

The S Tank is loaded as it arrived with all the associated additional equipment to including the digging spade & 'RPG screen'. possibly this could account for the difference..??

oh we can't forget a family of raccoons being only addition... (!?)

(VBs stash was removed to fund the new Vine Grove Volunteer Armor Veterans Museum....!!?? ha ha ha)

Regards
Don
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vmmv1
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Location: virginia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:40 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

When I delivered that vehicle, I found the weight in Janes to be way off, as usual, It was somewhere around 90,000+ lbs, Much heavier than most books list it at.
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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:51 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Apparently when the contractor asked for vehicle weights, they were given standard battle weights. When they asked for actual weights, they were informed that we don't have scales to weigh these things. So instead of bringing in a crane or portable scales to get accurate weights, to save money they guestimated what the weight would be without fuel and ammo. I guess they underestimated trying to pocket some extra cash by using smaller trucks and now will have to use bigger trucks they should have brought to begin with. The lowest bidder is not always the best bidder.

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Massimo_Foti
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:03 am
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- Garry_Redmon
The lowest bidder is not always the best bidder.


Here is one of my favorite quotes on this topic:

Fixed-price contracts may involve significant risk in estimating the cost prior to doing any work. A competent vendor will include this risk in the bid. A vendor that does not understand the complexity of the problem is
likely to underbid. The process of selecting a vendor for a fixed-price contract has a tendency to favor the most optimistic - or the most desperate - vendor. Consequently, the vendor least likely to understand the project's complexity is likely to be selected. Thus, fixed-price contracts tend to select the vendor most likely to get in trouble.
-- Tom Poppendieck
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the_shadock
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Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:08 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

Massimo,

this is far the best demonstration I've read for months..

IIRC, this is what is called a "market failure", which is "a concept within economic theory wherein the allocation of goods and services by a free market is not efficient."

Market failures can be viewed as scenarios where individuals' pursuit of pure self-interest leads to results that are not efficient.

(source : Wikipedia)

P-O

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Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
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Doug_Kibbey
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Posts: 4632
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:39 pm
Post subject: Re: THE MOVE.....(update)

- the_shadock
Massimo,

this is far the best demonstration I've read for months..

IIRC, this is what is called a "market failure", which is "a concept within economic theory wherein the allocation of goods and services by a free market is not efficient."

Market failures can be viewed as scenarios where individuals' pursuit of pure self-interest leads to results that are not efficient.


(source : Wikipedia)

P-O


Interestingly, that illustration also describes the entire move of this collection from Knox to Benning. OTOH, it's not exactly a "free market" scenario. Rolling Eyes
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