±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 715
Total: 715
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Downloads
03: Photo Gallery
04: Community Forums
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: News Archive
16: Your Account
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: Your Account
22: Photo Gallery
23: Home
24: Photo Gallery
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Photo Gallery
31: Photo Gallery
32: Home
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Your Account
39: Photo Gallery
40: Photo Gallery
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Downloads
46: Community Forums
47: Member Screenshots
48: Downloads
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Member Screenshots
54: Photo Gallery
55: Statistics
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Downloads
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Photo Gallery
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Downloads
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Member Screenshots
78: Statistics
79: CPGlang
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Home
88: Community Forums
89: Downloads
90: Photo Gallery
91: Community Forums
92: Downloads
93: Downloads
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Community Forums
98: Downloads
99: Photo Gallery
100: Downloads
101: Photo Gallery
102: Photo Gallery
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Downloads
106: Photo Gallery
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Downloads
111: Downloads
112: News
113: CPGlang
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: CPGlang
126: Community Forums
127: Photo Gallery
128: Downloads
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Downloads
134: Downloads
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Downloads
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Downloads
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Photo Gallery
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Your Account
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Downloads
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Treasury
167: CPGlang
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Downloads
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Downloads
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Home
183: Downloads
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: CPGlang
194: Home
195: Photo Gallery
196: Statistics
197: Photo Gallery
198: Photo Gallery
199: Downloads
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: CPGlang
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Downloads
220: Community Forums
221: Photo Gallery
222: Downloads
223: Downloads
224: Downloads
225: Photo Gallery
226: CPGlang
227: Photo Gallery
228: Home
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Home
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: CPGlang
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: CPGlang
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Downloads
255: Home
256: Home
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Downloads
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Downloads
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Photo Gallery
272: Downloads
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Photo Gallery
278: Member Screenshots
279: CPGlang
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Photo Gallery
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: CPGlang
288: Downloads
289: Community Forums
290: Downloads
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Downloads
295: Community Forums
296: News Archive
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Home
306: Community Forums
307: Photo Gallery
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Member Screenshots
315: Downloads
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Downloads
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Your Account
324: Photo Gallery
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Downloads
330: Home
331: Home
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Downloads
339: Member Screenshots
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Photo Gallery
345: Statistics
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Member Screenshots
355: Community Forums
356: Downloads
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Photo Gallery
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Member Screenshots
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Photo Gallery
371: Downloads
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Downloads
375: CPGlang
376: Photo Gallery
377: Photo Gallery
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Downloads
381: Downloads
382: Member Screenshots
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Photo Gallery
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: News
391: Community Forums
392: Home
393: Photo Gallery
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Downloads
398: Downloads
399: Photo Gallery
400: Photo Gallery
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Home
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Home
415: Community Forums
416: Downloads
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: Photo Gallery
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Photo Gallery
425: Photo Gallery
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Downloads
429: Home
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: Community Forums
434: Member Screenshots
435: Downloads
436: CPGlang
437: Community Forums
438: Member Screenshots
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: CPGlang
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: CPGlang
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Photo Gallery
451: Downloads
452: Community Forums
453: Downloads
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Photo Gallery
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: News
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: CPGlang
466: Downloads
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: News
472: Community Forums
473: Member Screenshots
474: Community Forums
475: Photo Gallery
476: Home
477: Downloads
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Statistics
482: Downloads
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Downloads
496: Community Forums
497: Downloads
498: Community Forums
499: Photo Gallery
500: Home
501: Community Forums
502: Downloads
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Photo Gallery
506: Photo Gallery
507: Member Screenshots
508: Photo Gallery
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Downloads
512: Home
513: Photo Gallery
514: Community Forums
515: Downloads
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Home
522: Community Forums
523: Home
524: Member Screenshots
525: Downloads
526: Photo Gallery
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Photo Gallery
531: CPGlang
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: Community Forums
535: Home
536: Photo Gallery
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Home
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Downloads
544: CPGlang
545: Community Forums
546: Downloads
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Community Forums
556: Photo Gallery
557: Home
558: CPGlang
559: CPGlang
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Your Account
567: Member Screenshots
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Home
574: Member Screenshots
575: Photo Gallery
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Downloads
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Photo Gallery
584: Photo Gallery
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Home
591: Home
592: Community Forums
593: Photo Gallery
594: Community Forums
595: Home
596: CPGlang
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Photo Gallery
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Home
607: Photo Gallery
608: Photo Gallery
609: Community Forums
610: Downloads
611: Photo Gallery
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Downloads
619: Photo Gallery
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: CPGlang
625: Photo Gallery
626: CPGlang
627: Photo Gallery
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Downloads
632: Community Forums
633: Home
634: Photo Gallery
635: Community Forums
636: Community Forums
637: Community Forums
638: Photo Gallery
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Photo Gallery
645: Community Forums
646: Downloads
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Home
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Downloads
653: CPGlang
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Photo Gallery
657: Downloads
658: Community Forums
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Photo Gallery
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Your Account
665: Downloads
666: Community Forums
667: Home
668: Photo Gallery
669: Photo Gallery
670: Photo Gallery
671: Member Screenshots
672: Photo Gallery
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Community Forums
676: Photo Gallery
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Community Forums
680: Home
681: Community Forums
682: Home
683: Downloads
684: Downloads
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Community Forums
692: Photo Gallery
693: Community Forums
694: Photo Gallery
695: Photo Gallery
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Photo Gallery
700: Community Forums
701: Photo Gallery
702: CPGlang
703: Community Forums
704: Home
705: Photo Gallery
706: Photo Gallery
707: Community Forums
708: Home
709: Community Forums
710: Downloads
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Home
714: Community Forums
715: Member Screenshots

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

The Panzer IV no. 14 (UniqueID 169) on that page is the tank we're talking about:

preservedtanks.com/Typ...p;Select=1

I took the identification of 'Ausf H' from Wheels and Tracks magazine, where it's covered in issue 30. However I should not have taken it at face value as I can see clearly now it is an Ausf J. I will make a correction on the website and in future editions of the Preserved German Tanks book.

- Doug_Kibbey
Can you give an angle of the rear that your looking specifically for (and example would be helpful)? I have 2-3 eye level views from various angles, or do you need a "top down view" of rear deck? Might not have that, but maybe something close.


The 'standard' Pz IV look, e.g. for Ausf G, H, etc. is a large horizontal exhaust silencer (muffler) on the rear plate, with a smaller silencer to the left of it:



A distinctive feature of the Ausf J was that this was removed, see for example the Pz IV Ausf J at Saumur:

preservedtanks.com/Det...PhotoID=89

In very late production models, a completely new exhaust system was used with two vertical silencers (similar to the Panther or Tiger), see for example the Pz IV Ausf J at Latrun:

preservedtanks.com/Det...otoID=1176

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

FINALLY, page two...I can post pics again. Laughing

Here is the bit you're looking for. Obvious bracketry for the silencer, but the bit itself is no longer present (I notice that the example at Saumur you cited lacks these brackets). Rough area on hull behind bracketry suggest to me that one was mounted at one time, mufflers are notorious for rusting out and quickly becoming unpresentable, besides, why would brackets be mounted if there was no intention to use them if simplification in manufacture was the point) Should come as no surprise, lots of bits are missing (what, for example, went in the tank that the curvy pieces to right supported? Whole tank is gone).

Also, though mismatched, the turret lacked the rear pistol ports I've seen in some versions. Also, closer inspection of the interior main gun pics seem to me to be lacking in something where gun enters mantlet. What is it that ain't there? (the diameter is not filling the mantlet opening)



*Edit to add....

Here's a interesting finding from a previous trip. Begs the question, is the reference to hull, turret, or both? Were some J's produced with silencers?....And when did fighting in Moldavia end?



...and since it's referenced on the plate, here's the engine, with one cam cover thoughtfully missing so we can appreciate the gear-driven SOHC (presumably with a gear train somewhat simpler than a Ford 427 "cammer").



Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:23 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Now that we're in a thread with piccie rights again, what's the significance of the number on this housing? And why, apart from needing to put together bits-and-pieces, would the track have solid and hollow center guides?



...and just for the heck of it, I didn't see any signs of the TC's azimuthal indicator doo-hickey. Probably lost to the parts bin of history...or wherever the muffler went.

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

I agree it looks like there's a bracket for the auxiliary engine silencer, however it's a different shape to the standard bracket, plus I don't see any connection/pipework going to it, which you can see for the missing main silencer next to it (it sat in the 'curvy pieces'). I'm still thinking it was an Ausf J without a silencer, and some other item has been stowed in its place.

For identification I haven't considered the turret at all, since we know it was added later. Regarding a gap around the gun going into the mantlet - could it just indicate the gun hasn't fully returned from the recoil position (i.e. it's jammed?). Regarding the hollow track centre guides my guess would be the same as reducing the number of return rollers - just another way of reducing the amount of metal required.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
BruceClark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

Hi,
I agree that this is a Late J hull- the extended hull sides for tow hooks and the 3 return rollers are the clues. The straps on the rear do look like they are intended for the auxilliary muffler but there is no port in the rear hull- this should be visible or plated over. It also has late cast idler and late lower tow hook though this latter may have been added post war.

The casting number on the final drive housing is just that- a casting number referenced in some drawing from long ago. The mixture of track types is fairly common in late war vehicles and especially museum exhibits- you use the track at hand to outfit the exhibit. The hollow guide horns are earlier than the solid, by the way. Not sure whether this was to simplify the manufacturing process- as it seems counter intuitive to use more metal later in the war- or whether there was an issue with the hollow guidehorns collecting mud, ice, snow, etc.

The turret is another issue indeed....

Hope that helps
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Good stuff, guys. It seems fighting in Moldavia was going on well into 1944, see: "Jassy–Kishinev Offensive (August 1944)"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...1Dec44.jpg

I'll try to get some more pics up later, including main gun/battery and coax/bow MG shrouds from inside. Might be original, but damaged from careless visitors pulling or standing on (museum visitors do some strange things to artifacts, sometimes). They had a bent and squirrely look to them, especially the bow gun (which is more vulnerable to abuse by visitors).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
BruceClark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

Doug and Trevor,

I went back to my photos of this vehicle taken prior to restoration.
( A buddy was a Nato military attache to former Warsaw pact countries and visited many of these former "off limits" collections.)

I have a clear shot of the rear plate showing some kind of container- oil? water?- held in place by those straps. Definitely not a muffler.

Now if I could only figure out how to post photos here...

BTW Will Phelps in "Panzer IV Survivors: A to J" lists this vehicle as a late J hull with a late H turret.

Cheers! Bruce
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

- BruceClark
Doug and Trevor,

I went back to my photos of this vehicle taken prior to restoration.
( A buddy was a Nato military attache to former Warsaw pact countries and visited many of these former "off limits" collections.)

I have a clear shot of the rear plate showing some kind of container- oil? water?- held in place by those straps. Definitely not a muffler.

Now if I could only figure out how to post photos here...

BTW Will Phelps in "Panzer IV Survivors: A to J" lists this vehicle as a late J hull with a late H turret.

Cheers! Bruce


Bruce,
Thanks, that's helpful! The tank might have been removed or fallen off when, as I notice in some of my closeups, the bracket welds have broken away from the hull at right bottom (I think it was).

D.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Yes - great picture, Bruce, that clears up any confusion.

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Here's the likely explanation for why the tank is no longer fitted (whatever it was for....it wasn't apparently deemed worthy of repair)

Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:31 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Not sure if this might help, by Garry Redmon just updated his 'Armor for the Ages' website. It includes the recently relocated Panzer Mk IV, that is receiving some attention.

Armor for the Ages : Panzer IV Project

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:02 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

- Dontos
Not sure if this might help, by Garry Redmon just updated his 'Armor for the Ages' website. It includes the recently relocated Panzer Mk IV, that is receiving some attention.

Armor for the Ages : Panzer IV Project

Don


Don,
Great pics, whether yours or Garry's. Not surprisingly, some aspects of the Bucharest vehicle are in better condition (forward drivers' and RO compartments, drive system up there)...the results of not having the weather exposure of the APG vehicle...and other aspects are just...incomplete (no turret basket, no internal stowage bins to speak of, etc.). APG vehicle is more original and complete, but exposure took it's toll. Interior of Bucharest vehicle was better protected (what there is of it), but is far less complete/original. White paint exceeds the rust, however.

Of course, you can't restore what ain't there, and that's probably not in the budget anyway. Between the old AFV Interiors file (may it remain forever in our hearts and hard drives), Garry's pics, and the Bucharest vehicle...I've gotten a new appreciation for what the inside is supposed to be like. I have to say that in many ways, it's easier to relate to later Patton-series vehicles in spatial use than U.S. vehicles of the same period (that is to say, more "modern" in scale and layout than the M4's). It's possible now to imagine what a "new" one should look like inside...and I haven't even seen the more pristine examples out there.

I was standing on the hull floor, however, and don't have any feel for what the fighting compartment height is like with turret basket under your feet.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:50 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) Pz IV Ausf J update...

- BruceClark
... I have a clear shot of the rear plate showing some kind of container- oil? water?- held in place by those straps. Definitely not a muffler...


It is actually the muffler for the auxiliary engine which turned the turret and this makes it an early J at the latest, since the auxiliary engine was dropped during the J-production run.



Jens O.
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Jens - I think you need to reread the discussion, as we started with that idea but decided it wasn't the case. If you're aware of that, then we'd be interested in your reasoning.

Dontos, the FK Panzer IV has exactly the muffler where we would expect it since it is a much earlier vehicle:



A great set of pictures though!

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:12 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Here is better view from AFTA website



Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum