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A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:19 pm
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

- the_shadock
to be more complete on the answer, only the small hatch M4A3s and the M4A4s have wide hood castings on the front hull. M4s and M4A2s have the narrow hood castings. So, the Sherman displayed ouside is an M4A3 or an M4A4.

You can see that it has a fitting for the 4″ bomb throwers on the turret side, and that is a typical British fitting, so this tank was used by British troops during WW2. Then you can tell that it is an M4A4 because the British only had very few M4A3s.

P-O


Okay - But I've spent some time looking at what little can be seen of the road wheel spacing (The best identifier I know of for M4A4) I can't decide. Now that vehicle is pretty distinctive with the shattered barrel. So does anyone have a good side shot of that vehicle? Or better yet an engine deck photo?

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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:12 pm
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

It's mislabeled. See this link from my web site.

armorfortheages.com/GG...tsPage.htm

Go to bottom of page. The spacing on bogies is more evident. I identified it as an M4A4, but I have been wrong before. Really.

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

Curiously, I've not found a lot of pictures showing the rear of the M4A4 at Fort Knox, here's one by Gary Binder :


part of the game was to identify the model of the tank without a side or a rear view Wink

P-O

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Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
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Geoff_walden
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:35 am
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

- Garry_Redmon
Unfortunately this is not the only example of incorrect displays made by the staff. The volunteers have made note of them and will discuss with the staff at our next meeting.


I hope they changed the label on that Luftwaffe dagger, that they were calling an SS dagger. Wink
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TrevorLarkum
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:45 pm
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

Good to see recent pictures.

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:09 pm
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

- Garry_Redmon
It's mislabeled. See this link from my web site.

armorfortheages.com/GG...tsPage.htm

Go to bottom of page. The spacing on bogies is more evident. I identified it as an M4A4, but I have been wrong before. Really.


Yea given the clearer view of the bogies I'll agree with M4A4. I believe many M4A4s were used for Stateside training by US forces then (as someone else mentioned) refurbed for reissue to allies when the U.S. units deployed

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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

- bsmart
- the_shadock
#36 is not an M4A2....

anyway the displays are interesting. Thanks for the photos !!

P-O


I'm not doubting you but how can you tell from that angle? Confused


Going further, the shape of the driver's hood castings, the shape of the glacis antenna bracket casting, the shape of the bow MG casting. Also, the gun shield lifting eyes (cast-in) seem to be peculiar to M4A4s.

There are weld scars on the glacis indicative of the British track stowage racks, so I would say for certain that this is an ex-Commonwealth vehicle. Many went directly to Lend-Lease without being used stateside.

KL
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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:40 pm
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

Rumor has it that it was a British vehicle knocked out at D-Day (or in the Normandy area) and was used as a range target post-war. How it got to Fort Knox I have no idea. Maybe Dontos can provide more info.

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:02 am
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

I heard it was knocked out during D-Day landings and a hard target by the French. It was 'traded' to the Patton Museum in the early 90's.

One of the more outlandish 'rumors' I heard, was that it was a 4th AD tank, taken from the battlefield area where Sadowski's Medal of Honor actions were recorded. (It was related to me from a supposed 'expert' in Armor....LOL!!)

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Don
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:08 am
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

I can teel for sure that this tank saw no active duty in the French Army in the 1950s, but it was possibly a target range, I don't know.

P-O

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chrisballance
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

As a reply to Koluchiy, there is at least open PzIV inside at Ft.Benning. I didn't get a direct photo of it this winter, but you can see it in the background.

Chris


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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:46 pm
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

That's the cut-away Panzer IV that Ft Knox got from APG in 2006 or so. It obviously moved to Ft Benning during the big move.

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Don
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:55 am
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

looking at the album, I wonder how they managed to find a spare turret for the Renault FT hull.

P-O

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chrisballance
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

I found a better PzIV photo on my phone and upload the rest of my Armor School visit camera photos to a smugmug gallery found here:

dubliner75.smugmug.com...;k=ffs67G6


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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:26 pm
Post subject: Re: A trip to Fort Knox and the new Patton Museum

- the_shadock
looking at the album, I wonder how they managed to find a spare turret for the Renault FT hull.

P-O


I think that's the turret from the 2nd FT that came out of Afghanistan back in 02/03.

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Don
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