±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 717
Total: 717
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Photo Gallery
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Downloads
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Member Screenshots
10: Member Screenshots
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Downloads
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: News Archive
20: CPGlang
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Downloads
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Downloads
40: Community Forums
41: Home
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Downloads
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Member Screenshots
49: Downloads
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Downloads
56: Community Forums
57: Downloads
58: Community Forums
59: CPGlang
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Member Screenshots
73: Downloads
74: Community Forums
75: Your Account
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Your Account
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Member Screenshots
96: Community Forums
97: News Archive
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Downloads
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Community Forums
117: Downloads
118: Community Forums
119: Statistics
120: Photo Gallery
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Downloads
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Member Screenshots
131: Photo Gallery
132: Photo Gallery
133: Downloads
134: Community Forums
135: Downloads
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Downloads
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Community Forums
154: Downloads
155: Community Forums
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: CPGlang
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Member Screenshots
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: Member Screenshots
179: Community Forums
180: Downloads
181: Community Forums
182: Member Screenshots
183: Member Screenshots
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Statistics
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Member Screenshots
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Home
202: Photo Gallery
203: Photo Gallery
204: Photo Gallery
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Member Screenshots
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Statistics
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Photo Gallery
224: Photo Gallery
225: CPGlang
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: CPGlang
229: Photo Gallery
230: Community Forums
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Member Screenshots
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Member Screenshots
237: Downloads
238: Community Forums
239: Downloads
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Downloads
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Downloads
261: Downloads
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: Search
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Member Screenshots
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Member Screenshots
288: CPGlang
289: Community Forums
290: Member Screenshots
291: Community Forums
292: Photo Gallery
293: News Archive
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Member Screenshots
297: Member Screenshots
298: Downloads
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: Member Screenshots
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Member Screenshots
305: Photo Gallery
306: Member Screenshots
307: Photo Gallery
308: Photo Gallery
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Member Screenshots
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Photo Gallery
315: Downloads
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Your Account
319: Downloads
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: Community Forums
325: Downloads
326: Community Forums
327: CPGlang
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Member Screenshots
333: CPGlang
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Member Screenshots
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Downloads
348: Community Forums
349: Community Forums
350: Photo Gallery
351: Community Forums
352: CPGlang
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Downloads
356: News Archive
357: Downloads
358: Community Forums
359: Downloads
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Downloads
365: Community Forums
366: Member Screenshots
367: Photo Gallery
368: Your Account
369: Community Forums
370: Home
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Home
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Home
388: CPGlang
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Downloads
395: Community Forums
396: News
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: CPGlang
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Home
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: CPGlang
410: Community Forums
411: CPGlang
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Home
419: Member Screenshots
420: Member Screenshots
421: Member Screenshots
422: Community Forums
423: Photo Gallery
424: Home
425: Member Screenshots
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: CPGlang
430: News
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Photo Gallery
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Home
447: Community Forums
448: Downloads
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Downloads
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Home
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Home
476: Downloads
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Home
489: Photo Gallery
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Photo Gallery
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Photo Gallery
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Photo Gallery
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: CPGlang
512: Downloads
513: Member Screenshots
514: Photo Gallery
515: Statistics
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Photo Gallery
519: Photo Gallery
520: Photo Gallery
521: Downloads
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: Downloads
527: Member Screenshots
528: Home
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Your Account
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Downloads
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Member Screenshots
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Statistics
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Member Screenshots
553: Downloads
554: Photo Gallery
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Photo Gallery
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Photo Gallery
565: Your Account
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Downloads
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Member Screenshots
573: Community Forums
574: Member Screenshots
575: Photo Gallery
576: Photo Gallery
577: Member Screenshots
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Member Screenshots
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Downloads
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Downloads
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Photo Gallery
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: CPGlang
600: Community Forums
601: Photo Gallery
602: Photo Gallery
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Member Screenshots
606: Community Forums
607: Photo Gallery
608: Community Forums
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Photo Gallery
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Photo Gallery
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Member Screenshots
623: Home
624: Community Forums
625: Photo Gallery
626: Photo Gallery
627: Photo Gallery
628: Home
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Member Screenshots
634: Community Forums
635: Photo Gallery
636: News Archive
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Photo Gallery
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Home
647: News
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Downloads
652: Photo Gallery
653: Community Forums
654: Statistics
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Your Account
658: Community Forums
659: Member Screenshots
660: Community Forums
661: CPGlang
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Community Forums
667: Photo Gallery
668: Downloads
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Community Forums
672: Photo Gallery
673: Home
674: Community Forums
675: Member Screenshots
676: Community Forums
677: Home
678: Community Forums
679: Photo Gallery
680: CPGlang
681: Community Forums
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Photo Gallery
685: Home
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: Home
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Photo Gallery
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Downloads
696: Community Forums
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Community Forums
700: News
701: Photo Gallery
702: Home
703: Community Forums
704: Your Account
705: Downloads
706: Community Forums
707: Downloads
708: Community Forums
709: Home
710: Community Forums
711: Photo Gallery
712: Photo Gallery
713: Community Forums
714: Home
715: Photo Gallery
716: Home
717: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
MAP (Military Assistance Program)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:14 am
Post subject: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I have done some research at the National Archives on Sherman based exports from MAP (Military Assistance Program). It is by no means complete and leaves a lot of questions since it does not break down what type of Sherman's were exported other than TNKMEM4 or M4A3. I assume most of the TNKMEM4 were probably M4A1 76mm. It also doesn't list M32 which might be included in the TNKMEN4.
I have not yet found any exports prior to 1963. There are some surprises like Indochina (Vietnam) and Tunisia getting M74 ARV's

Country Year Amount

M4 Sherman

Belgium 1963 85
Portugal 1963 19
Denmark 1963 8
France 1963 1484
Indochina 1963 2
Iran 1963 110
Italy 1963 28
Netherlands 1963 98
Turkey 1963 3
Undefined Code 1963 599


M74

Austria 1963 2
Belgium 1963 165
Brazil 1963 3
Chile 1963 3
Denmark 1963 1
France 1963 257
Germany 1963 156
Greece 1963 28
Indochina 1963 5
Indonesia 1963 2
Iran 1963 43
Iraq 1963 1
Italy 1963 118
Japan 1963 15
Libya 1963 1
Netherlands 1963 20
Pakistan 1963 35
Portugal 1963 13
S. Korea 1963 15
Spain 1963 24
Taiwan 1963 7
Tunisia 1963 4
Turkey 1963 168
Turkey 1965 51
Uruguay 1963 1
Back to top
View user's profile
Tichenor
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Dec 06, 2007
Posts: 461
Location: Antwerp
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:59 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

These seems very strange to me as by 1963 Belgian Shermans where already obsolete and replaced by M47's. M74 could be correct they where used until the 80's.

Michel

_________________
www.afvregister.org
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

Your information is not correct concerning the dates and numbers.

There is a article written by Hanno Spoelstra about the Sherman tanks in service with the Dutch army.

2 batches where supplied under de MDAP to the Netherlands.
38 Shermans version M4A1 and a batch of 50 M4A1E9, all 75mm

By 1958 all Shermans tanks had been replaced by the British Centurion.

Concerning the recovery versions, I could find no data.
However by by 1968 the Centurion tanks where replaced by the Leopard 1.
So very likely that most, perhaps even all, Sherman recovery variants by then where replaced by the recovery variant of the Leopard 1

MichelK

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

it seems curious to me too, as the website "charsfrancais.net" mentions that the Sherman was used in France until 1965. The M4A4Ts were converted from M4A4s in 1952-1953. Note that the AMX-13 light tank was developed in 1953, and the AMX-30 in 1965, so there was no need of Sherman tanks in 1963 in France.

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:24 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I also question as to the accuracy of some of the documents that I downloaded from NARA. I'm also wondering if some of the MAP Shermans delivered were to be used as parts spares (maybe for the M74)or even target range tanks and were never put into service.
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I also question as to the accuracy of some of the documents that I downloaded from NARA. I'm also wondering if some of the MAP Shermans delivered were to be used as parts spares (maybe for the M74)or even target range tanks and were never put into service.


The Dutch army after the war would not have stripped new tanks for spares.
Direct after the war about 250 Shermans where salvaged/rescued from scrapyard stocks of the Commonwealth forces and these where in a bad condition.

So there was no need for target range tanks also. because enough scrap standing around. Mr. Green

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

The other possibility is that these were giving to the Netherlands to be transferred to another country I.e. Israel
Back to top
View user's profile
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:33 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

aad.archives.gov/aad/r...141,217436

aad.archives.gov/aad/r...090,209505
Back to top
View user's profile
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:56 am
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I've come across some of these MDAP records and they should be used with considerable caution, as some list what is intended to be delivered, others what is delivered and they are not particularily precise when it comes to the types of vehicles.

Danmark got 8 Sherman M4A3E4 and one M32B1 in 1952, but it is not the first time I've seen the latter listed under M74. In fact, M74 figures in the documents regarding planned deliveries, but apparently you got what was available in terms of recovery vehicles.

I always try to confirm the delivery data in the MDAP records with data from Danish Army Archives to see what was actually delivered.

With regards to the date, my guess is that the document lists what have been delivered up to 1963 rather than what was delivered in 1963
Back to top
View user's profile
mikek92888
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 9:41 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I was thinking that the date of 1963 was maybe the closeout of the delivery of something to that effect.
Back to top
View user's profile
clausb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 25, 2006
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:18 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

- mikek92888
I was thinking that the date of 1963 was maybe the closeout of the delivery of something to that effect.


IIRC there was some change in the military aid program in the early 1960ies when the name changes from Mutual Defense Assistance Program (MDAP) to Military Aid (or assistance?) Program (MAP).
Back to top
View user's profile
Michel_Krauss
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Oct 30, 2009
Posts: 953
Location: Zuid-Holland, The Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: MAP (Military Assistance Program)

I have been studying the figures of Sherman supplied to the Dutch ..... and still can't figure it out Neutral

_________________
I'm Not Crazy, I'm Just Not You
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum