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M60A2 turret on M48 hull
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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tanker2010
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:30 am
Post subject: M60A2 turret on M48 hull

If I remember right, a few years back someone posted up some pics of a M48 hull with a M60A2 turret. I'm not talking about the pics of the derelict ones around Ft. Knox. These were of one I believe was used as a turret test bed or something. There was a ladder or something welded on the front slope. Anybody know the pics I'm talking about? Thanks
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Garry_Redmon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:30 am
Post subject: Re: M60A2 turret on M48 hull

www.com-central.net/in...ic&t=10960

Is this what you are referring to?

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A2 turret on M48 hull

- Garry_Redmon
http://www.com-central.net/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=10960

Is this what you are referring to?


He is on about the frankentanks - there are too many threads mentioning them already so just do search on that term.

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:11 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A2 turret on M48 hull

Tanker 2010,

The only M48 I know of that mounted 152mm gun/missile system was the M48 hull equipped with one of the T95 test turrets. Was used by Ford Aerospace to test fire at White Sands Missile Range. Here are a couple of pictures of it.

Side view

Front view

Not the best images but best I have.

There is a static display of one of the M48A3 pilot hulls equipped with the "D" model turret, one of the M60A1E1/E2 M60A2 turrets proposed. This image is from Walter Sobchek.

XM66

Installing an M60A2 turret or any M60 turret on an M48 hull is not that simple. M60 turret baskets/floors hang 2" lower than the M48's. BDAR manuals have maintenance teams cut 2" from the arms that hang the floor from M60/60A1/A3 turrets to do this. Cannot be done with M60A2 turret since too many critical items cannot be moved to accommodate this. If you look closely, the M48A3 hull with the "D" turret has a 2" spacer welded to the turret ring which was done when they considered making the M48A4. Two A3 hulls were modified this way to install Slick M60 turrets. I know of no other M48's that mount M60A2 turrets or anything similar. The "FrankenTank" I inspected at Knox had no turret basket when it was cobbled together for target duty.

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vagabond
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:07 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A2 turret on M48 hull

JoeD beat me to it....

We posted this gallery a while back

From Armada, MI AMVETS Post 73 - M48 with XM66D Turret

Gallery Link:
www.vgbimages.com/AFV-...MI-M48-wit

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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:48 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A2 turret on M48 hull

"Installing an M60A2 turret or any M60 turret on an M48 hull is not that simple. M60 turret baskets/floors hang 2" lower than the M48's. BDAR manuals have maintenance teams cut 2" from the arms that hang the floor from M60/60A1/A3 turrets to do this."

What?!? They actually considered this as a viable field repair??

KL
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:52 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A2 turret on M48 hull

Kurt,

Yes they did, but I was wrong about the the cutting. The opening for the slip ring had to be cut larger to install the M48A5 turret on an M60 hull. For the M60A1 or A3 turret to go on an M48 hull you had to swap out the "Platform legs" from an M48 turret to raise it 2". What I get working from memory, lol. Only limitation would be the NBC system might not work (Gas particulate hook ups for CBR masks). M48/M60 turrets only need a 24VDC source to function, so in theory you could set one up on a cradle and make a pill box if needed. Slip ring connected CBR, intercom and 24VDC source. Here is the page, very simple since the -20 covered all the other necessary steps.


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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:42 am
Post subject: Re: M60A2 turret on M48 hull

Wow, that's really a "backs against the wall" sort of repair.

There's been a lot of talk over the years that during WW II all sorts of Sherman repairs, modifications, and switches happened "to get more tanks to the line" but the reality was that a tank with a damaged turret was parked next to tank with a damaged hull and left there until after the war. While the Ordnance crews did do amazing things to get more tanks to the line they simply didn't have 500 man-hours to spend getting one Frankentank to work when the same effort could be used to put 25 or 50 other tanks back into service.

Thx,
KL
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:37 pm
Post subject: Re: M60A2 turret on M48 hull

Kurt,

Makes plenty of sense to me. Not well versed of Sherman history or types but do understand why doing a "Drastic" repair or cannibalization was not really necessary since the US was cranking out Sherman tanks at a phenomenal rate by 44. As far as the M48/M60 BDAR book and the reasoning behind fitting turrets on other hulls goes, I believe this was due to the serious lack of facilities to produce tanks compared to our WWII infrastructure, which was already close to if not on a War posture before 1941. One of the many lessons learned from the '73 war between Arab and Israeli forces was the rapid decimation of AFV's that was not expected. ATGM's were fairly new and this was the first time they were used in large numbers. This led to a realization that our Tank reserves were inadequate to meet the "New" attrition rates in Europe should a War break out. One of the major problems with increasing tank reserves was our lack of casting facilities to make the desired amount of turrets and hulls. Took over two years to get the desired production rate and even then the numbers paled in comparison to WWII. Many "what if's" involved and I imagine one of those "what if's" was consideration of a prolonged slug fest and need to keep tank numbers up. Between limited transportation across the "Big Pond" and a much more serious threat to sea and air shipping lanes, this option would seem a viable answer. Been involved with turret removals on M1 and M60's and even in a peacetime environment, not that difficult to accomplish, with waiting for parts usually the biggest time killer. Swapping a turret from one M48/M60 hull to another while drastic can be done fairly quick. Just like automotive repair manuals the dealers use, required time to accomplish the job is listed. In this case, the manual states 3 soldiers and 10-18 hours needed to accomplish the swap. Just very glad we never had to test these fixes under real circumstances.

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