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Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:15 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Ooops,

a clear case of SPSF, I really should not post when I am not completely focussed... Still, does the rough area behind the empty straps look like an overpainted patch up-job? It is decidedly rougher than the rest of the plate and what is the rusty tonguelike thingy sticking out at the bottom?

I need a time machine, a good digital SLR and about 1 GB worth of memory cards...



Jens O.
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BruceClark
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:28 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) PzIV update...

Jens,

Not sure about the "rusty tongue like thingy" to which you are referring. Which photo?

The auxilliary muffler has an exhaust port through the rear plate- the hole would be to the left of the straps and visible. If covered over - and in early J's this was done- an armoured plate is usually welded over the hole, standing proud from the rear plate surface. This is not evident.

The other construction features of the hull- 3 return rollers and extended sides- indicate that this hull was constructed late in the Ausf J series, well after the turret traverse motor was dropped and hence there would be little chance of an earlier rear plate with exhaust port present being used.

HTH Bruce
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:59 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Doug,

Any chance of seeing more pictures of that barrel sleeve on the PZ IV bow MG?

Cheers,
Rik

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

- Rikard_Hufschmied
Doug,

Any chance of seeing more pictures of that barrel sleeve on the PZ IV bow MG?

Cheers,
Rik


Rik

Coax and Bow gun jackets. They look better on the inside than the outside. Might be the real deal. What say ye?

D.
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:11 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

They're the real deal alright, thanks!

Rik

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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:18 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Without the structural support of the actual barrels the MG 34 shrouds are quite fragile. The Bow shroud looks like someone has been standing on it, and probably a lot of people have.

Do you have close-ups of the flash hider assemblies? This is getting a tad "nerdy", but hey I confess I'm a panzer nerd Smile

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:44 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

- Rikard_Hufschmied
Without the structural support of the actual barrels the MG 34 shrouds are quite fragile. The Bow shroud looks like someone has been standing on it, and probably a lot of people have.

Do you have close-ups of the flash hider assemblies? This is getting a tad "nerdy", but hey I confess I'm a panzer nerd Smile


Not "close ups", but tight crops from original exposures.

Museum visitors can be quite strange about seeing what they can damage sometimes. "Hey, look, I can bend this part...tanks aren't so tough!" Rolling Eyes
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Rikard_Hufschmied
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Those barrel shrouds, flash hider/recoil cone assemblies should have been reinforced with a steel rod, they are also protruding quite a lot more than they should adding to injury. Kudos though for using real MG34 (even though not the MG34 panzerlauf) hardware and not using any odd piece of pipe or plumbing.

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Mircea87
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

I know this is an old thread, but this info might be interesting.

30 years ago there was only the chassis of the tank at the museum (which had a different location back then, it was not on Vacarescu street). Col. Lupastean Aurel found out that a half buried German turret was lying around somewhere in Dobruja at a tank school. He went there to see for himself: it was a genuine T4 turret. After he recovered the turret, he personally took care of the work. The turret was mounted on the hull of the tank and a soviet 76 mm gun was installed in the turret. By the way, the tank was initially painted for desert camouflage, it was probably from a Afrika Korps delivery, but never made it there.

This is not my research, I'm just translating a Romanian comment from ww2.ro. The person who wrote the comment is the son of col. Lupastean, now retired.

Interesting stuff, isn't it?
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

- Mircea87
I know this is an old thread, but this info might be interesting.

30 years ago there was only the chassis of the tank at the museum (which had a different location back then, it was not on Vacarescu street). Col. Lupastean Aurel found out that a half buried German turret was lying around somewhere in Dobruja at a tank school. He went there to see for himself: it was a genuine T4 turret. After he recovered the turret, he personally took care of the work. The turret was mounted on the hull of the tank and a soviet 76 mm gun was installed in the turret. By the way, the tank was initially painted for desert camouflage, it was probably from a Afrika Korps delivery, but never made it there.

This is not my research, I'm just translating a Romanian comment from ww2.ro. The person who wrote the comment is the son of col. Lupastean, now retired.

Interesting stuff, isn't it?


Mircea87...

Yes, that is essentially what I was told by the museum director on the occasion of my last visit when I photographed the interior.

Thank you for your posts here and in the artillery forum. It is always nice to have members residing in the country where we find our subjects as they can add valuable background and have an advantage regarding language.

We have three threads regarding the collection at Bucharest. Please feel free to add your comments or correct any mistakes you happen to find.

Welcome
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

Hello guys,

I got an email from R. McKenna, who currently discusses with me of the Panzer IV Ausf. J from Bucharest. He says that :

"I took another look at the photo, and spotted (much more obvious!) that it has three steel return rollers - I believe (again, my reference stuff is not available) these were only introduced in Dec 44.

So, this vehicle never actually served in Romania (at least with the Germans!), and must have been captured elsewhere (Hungary, Czechoslovakia or Germany) later.

I have two guesses for it:

o passed around between the Soviet bloc countries after the war, or

o acquired by a Romanian unit serving with the Russians, and taken back to Romania by them

- On Doug Kibbey’s site (he meant the AFV News forum), there is a photo of a brass plaque attached to the vehicle, stating that it served with Romania troops from 44 – 53

o I think this is extremely unlikely – and that it should be 45-53.

Cheers"

any guess about that?

Pierre-Olivier

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Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

- the_shadock
Hello guys,

I got an email from R. McKenna, who currently discusses with me of the Panzer IV Ausf. J from Bucharest. He says that :
Pierre-Olivier


If he'd like, I could upload the greater portion of my interior pics to a separate Photobucket album and he could review them, if it would be helpful.
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Mircea87
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:11 am
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

At the end of WW2 Romania had only two T4 tanks: one at the front and one used for training back in the country. The chassis of this tank had some Cyrillic writings on it (I remember reading this somewhere...), so it was used by the Red Army post war as a towing vehicle. It was most likely a soviet delivery after the war, though I don't know if it was delivered together with the ~50 T4 tanks in 1946 or just left here in Romania at the end of the soviet occupation, in the '50s. The museum plate I think mentions the 1944-1953 period for the Ausf. J in the Romanian Army, not for that specific tank.
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Manolo
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Romanian (Bucharest) MkIV and Sherman update...

bump

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