±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 821
Total: 821
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Photo Gallery
15: Member Screenshots
16: Photo Gallery
17: Photo Gallery
18: Photo Gallery
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: CPGlang
29: CPGlang
30: CPGlang
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: CPGlang
34: Community Forums
35: CPGlang
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Home
42: Community Forums
43: CPGlang
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Home
47: Downloads
48: Downloads
49: Home
50: News
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Member Screenshots
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Supporters
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: CPGlang
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Home
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: CPGlang
73: Downloads
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: CPGlang
80: Community Forums
81: Downloads
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Home
85: Home
86: Your Account
87: Member Screenshots
88: Community Forums
89: CPGlang
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: CPGlang
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: CPGlang
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Home
104: Photo Gallery
105: Photo Gallery
106: Downloads
107: Community Forums
108: CPGlang
109: Community Forums
110: News Archive
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: CPGlang
114: Community Forums
115: Downloads
116: Downloads
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: CPGlang
123: Home
124: CPGlang
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Your Account
131: Community Forums
132: Photo Gallery
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Member Screenshots
137: CPGlang
138: Community Forums
139: CPGlang
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: CPGlang
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: CPGlang
150: Photo Gallery
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: CPGlang
155: Community Forums
156: Photo Gallery
157: Downloads
158: CPGlang
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: Home
162: CPGlang
163: Community Forums
164: Photo Gallery
165: Member Screenshots
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Downloads
170: CPGlang
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: CPGlang
178: Statistics
179: Home
180: Member Screenshots
181: Photo Gallery
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: CPGlang
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: CPGlang
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Photo Gallery
197: Home
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: CPGlang
204: CPGlang
205: Photo Gallery
206: Home
207: Home
208: CPGlang
209: Member Screenshots
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Community Forums
213: Downloads
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Home
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: CPGlang
222: Photo Gallery
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: CPGlang
226: Home
227: Photo Gallery
228: Home
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: CPGlang
234: Community Forums
235: Your Account
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Member Screenshots
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Photo Gallery
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Member Screenshots
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Downloads
266: Downloads
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: CPGlang
271: Your Account
272: CPGlang
273: Member Screenshots
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Member Screenshots
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Downloads
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Downloads
283: CPGlang
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: CPGlang
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: CPGlang
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Home
297: Photo Gallery
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Photo Gallery
301: Home
302: CPGlang
303: Community Forums
304: Member Screenshots
305: Home
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Home
310: Your Account
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: CPGlang
317: CPGlang
318: CPGlang
319: Photo Gallery
320: Home
321: CPGlang
322: Photo Gallery
323: Community Forums
324: CPGlang
325: CPGlang
326: Community Forums
327: Photo Gallery
328: Downloads
329: CPGlang
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Your Account
333: Photo Gallery
334: Downloads
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: CPGlang
339: News Archive
340: CPGlang
341: CPGlang
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Downloads
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Downloads
349: Community Forums
350: CPGlang
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: CPGlang
354: Community Forums
355: Photo Gallery
356: Home
357: Photo Gallery
358: News
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: CPGlang
365: CPGlang
366: Photo Gallery
367: Community Forums
368: CPGlang
369: Photo Gallery
370: Downloads
371: Home
372: Community Forums
373: Your Account
374: Your Account
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Photo Gallery
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: CPGlang
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Downloads
392: Downloads
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Downloads
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Statistics
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Home
412: CPGlang
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Member Screenshots
421: Home
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Downloads
426: Community Forums
427: Home
428: Home
429: CPGlang
430: CPGlang
431: Member Screenshots
432: CPGlang
433: CPGlang
434: Community Forums
435: Home
436: CPGlang
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Photo Gallery
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: CPGlang
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Photo Gallery
457: Community Forums
458: CPGlang
459: Photo Gallery
460: Community Forums
461: CPGlang
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Home
465: Community Forums
466: CPGlang
467: Community Forums
468: Downloads
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: CPGlang
475: CPGlang
476: Community Forums
477: Home
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Home
482: Member Screenshots
483: Community Forums
484: Photo Gallery
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Your Account
489: Community Forums
490: Downloads
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Photo Gallery
494: Photo Gallery
495: CPGlang
496: Community Forums
497: Photo Gallery
498: Photo Gallery
499: Photo Gallery
500: Community Forums
501: CPGlang
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: CPGlang
506: Home
507: Home
508: Home
509: Home
510: Community Forums
511: Home
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Downloads
521: Photo Gallery
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: CPGlang
530: Your Account
531: Community Forums
532: Community Forums
533: Home
534: Photo Gallery
535: CPGlang
536: News Archive
537: Community Forums
538: CPGlang
539: Home
540: Home
541: Community Forums
542: CPGlang
543: Community Forums
544: Photo Gallery
545: Community Forums
546: Home
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: CPGlang
553: Photo Gallery
554: Downloads
555: Community Forums
556: Member Screenshots
557: Community Forums
558: CPGlang
559: Downloads
560: Community Forums
561: Photo Gallery
562: Your Account
563: Member Screenshots
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Your Account
567: CPGlang
568: Community Forums
569: CPGlang
570: Home
571: Photo Gallery
572: Photo Gallery
573: Home
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Photo Gallery
579: Photo Gallery
580: CPGlang
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: Photo Gallery
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: CPGlang
588: CPGlang
589: Photo Gallery
590: News
591: Photo Gallery
592: Photo Gallery
593: Community Forums
594: CPGlang
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Your Account
600: Community Forums
601: Home
602: Photo Gallery
603: Community Forums
604: CPGlang
605: Community Forums
606: Community Forums
607: CPGlang
608: Community Forums
609: Photo Gallery
610: Community Forums
611: Photo Gallery
612: Photo Gallery
613: CPGlang
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Photo Gallery
618: Community Forums
619: Photo Gallery
620: Community Forums
621: CPGlang
622: Home
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Photo Gallery
626: Community Forums
627: Community Forums
628: Photo Gallery
629: Photo Gallery
630: CPGlang
631: Community Forums
632: Member Screenshots
633: Photo Gallery
634: Community Forums
635: Your Account
636: Photo Gallery
637: Downloads
638: Member Screenshots
639: Community Forums
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Community Forums
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Home
646: Downloads
647: Community Forums
648: Community Forums
649: Photo Gallery
650: Community Forums
651: Home
652: Photo Gallery
653: Photo Gallery
654: Community Forums
655: Community Forums
656: Photo Gallery
657: Member Screenshots
658: Your Account
659: Photo Gallery
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Home
663: Community Forums
664: Photo Gallery
665: Home
666: Community Forums
667: Photo Gallery
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Photo Gallery
671: Community Forums
672: Home
673: Community Forums
674: Community Forums
675: Photo Gallery
676: Community Forums
677: CPGlang
678: Downloads
679: Home
680: Photo Gallery
681: Member Screenshots
682: CPGlang
683: CPGlang
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Community Forums
688: CPGlang
689: Community Forums
690: Community Forums
691: Photo Gallery
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Downloads
696: Downloads
697: CPGlang
698: Photo Gallery
699: Community Forums
700: Home
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Photo Gallery
705: Community Forums
706: Your Account
707: Community Forums
708: CPGlang
709: Community Forums
710: Home
711: Home
712: Community Forums
713: Your Account
714: Community Forums
715: Photo Gallery
716: Home
717: Community Forums
718: Statistics
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Photo Gallery
723: CPGlang
724: Member Screenshots
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Community Forums
728: Photo Gallery
729: Photo Gallery
730: Community Forums
731: Statistics
732: Community Forums
733: Photo Gallery
734: Community Forums
735: Community Forums
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: CPGlang
739: Photo Gallery
740: Community Forums
741: CPGlang
742: Community Forums
743: Community Forums
744: Photo Gallery
745: Community Forums
746: CPGlang
747: Community Forums
748: Home
749: Photo Gallery
750: Community Forums
751: Community Forums
752: Home
753: CPGlang
754: Community Forums
755: Home
756: Community Forums
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Photo Gallery
760: Home
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums
763: CPGlang
764: CPGlang
765: CPGlang
766: Community Forums
767: Community Forums
768: Community Forums
769: Photo Gallery
770: Community Forums
771: Community Forums
772: Home
773: Statistics
774: Community Forums
775: Photo Gallery
776: Photo Gallery
777: Member Screenshots
778: Community Forums
779: Community Forums
780: Community Forums
781: Community Forums
782: News
783: Photo Gallery
784: Downloads
785: Community Forums
786: Photo Gallery
787: Community Forums
788: Community Forums
789: Community Forums
790: Community Forums
791: Photo Gallery
792: CPGlang
793: CPGlang
794: CPGlang
795: Community Forums
796: Community Forums
797: Member Screenshots
798: Community Forums
799: Community Forums
800: Community Forums
801: Home
802: Community Forums
803: Community Forums
804: CPGlang
805: Photo Gallery
806: Community Forums
807: Home
808: Photo Gallery
809: Community Forums
810: Home
811: CPGlang
812: Community Forums
813: Community Forums
814: Community Forums
815: Community Forums
816: Photo Gallery
817: Home
818: CPGlang
819: Home
820: Home
821: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Hey Roy!
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:16 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

'Hi Mike, I always wondered why it never made it to the troops as well.'

Think back to those times. Vietnam was sucking all the funds that the Army could get. As that drew down the budget was cut in the anti-military feeling of the time. Then came the carter years of 'belt tightening'

Weapons development programs were all seen as wasteful by the media and there was no support for anything military. The army had to make very hard decisions about what programs it wanted to keep on life support so that they could be revived later. Research for what became the Abrahms and Bradley programs got some funds as did the Attack Helicopter that became Apache and teh lift helicpter that became Blackhawk. Some funds went into Air Defense systems (Patriot and Divads) but lots of promising programs were killed off.

Scary thing is I think I see it happening again

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:38 am
Post subject: Re: Scout vehicles

Hi Folks!

To Recon 4

I agree with you about the Bradley being to big for a Scout vehicle. When I was running M114 (LINGLES) through the forests of Germany, I could get through places only a M151 Jeep could follow. When we upgraded to M113s, that made it harder to get away from other infantry carriers, but it was still easy to find cover and escape from tank units. When I first read in Armor Magazine that the Bradley was going to be used as a Scout vehicle I was shocked. Then I saw a suggested load plan which encluded a motorcycle. That had me thinking that it would be OK. Two scouts working on motorcycles would make up for the size and noise level of a 30+ ton AFV. Your comments about gunnery doesn't surpise me. There is an old saying that goes something like, 'if it looks like a tank, someone will use it like a tank'. The Brads with that 25mm chain gun and the TOW AT system was a setup for going over board into tank gunney type training. I left the scouting field before the Bradleys arrived, but have always tried to keep up with what was going on. Not fielding the motocycle was another one of those cost cutting events that destoryed a lot of the scouting functions of the Bradley. I think the Army should have went ahead and fielded the M800(T). Dropping the M800 ARSV has came back to bit the Army in 6 o'clock position. Sad

To David,
The Red X seams to be related to the Boss's computer. When lurking at home, I can see the photo. Nice looking vehicle. Confused

To Dontos,
Additional personnel...During my time, the scout TOE for a M114 was three people. During my four years in Germany working with a M-TOE, the four squad leader vehicles and the platoon leader only had two people assigned. So in some ways it would be better to have a four man vehicle with four duty positions so headquarters can not take slots away to save on manning. I don't know. I guess it is possible that if the Army had fielded the M800(T) ARSV that a M-TOE would have still been used and we would have seen vehicles running around with only two crewmen. Neutral

To Neil,
I agree with Neil that if the M800(T) had been fielded, it would still be around with some upgrades. Possible a turret right off the Bradley. Comment set of parts and S4/G4 requirments. Razz

Neil quoted a section from Hunnicutt's Bradley book. For the longest time, I understood the comments about "lateral instability and directional control" in reference to the tracked M800. Sometime back while reading that again, I got the impression that the sentence layout was a bit hard to following and the comments were talking about the wheeled XM800W. I request those who have Hunnicutt's book to take another look at that paragraft.

If the XM800T was superior to both the M113A1 and the XM800W in overal performance, how could it have a lateral instability and directional control problems? If it was superior to the M113A1, then the M113s should have had a greater lateral instability and directional control problems.

Does anyone else see what I talking about or am I just lost in the woods?

My 2 cents, sorry for the late follow up folks.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Scout vehicles

- Roy_A_Lingle


To Dontos,
Additional personnel...During my time, the scout TOE for a M114 was three people. During my four years in Germany working with a M-TOE, the four squad leader vehicles and the platoon leader only had two people assigned. So in some ways it would be better to have a four man vehicle with four duty positions so headquarters can not take slots away to save on manning. I don't know. I guess it is possible that if the Army had fielded the M800(T) ARSV that a M-TOE would have still been used and we would have seen vehicles running around with only two crewmen.


Roy

Perhaps I misspoke. Having been in and around the 'Lingle', I assumed a similiar MTOE as a Bradley Scout platoon. Thus mounting more than the crew to enable vehicle functionability and additional dismounted scout activities. Unfortunately, it made sense to me that way.

The Luchs is a small tank. It allows barely enough room for the crew. The M114 is more adapt at facilitating additional personnel, hence the benefit of the M114 in comparison to the Luchs.

The XM800W has no room for attitional crew but would have been a good vehicle for the job (Recon), as I have seen. The XM800T is just a mini Bradley ( 'Bradley-ette?' ) and I'm not sure dismounts would have worked with it either.

I think the commonality of chassis was the intent with the IFV / CFV concept.

Thanks for the clarification,
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

[quote="Neil_Baumgardner"]
- recon4ww2

Nope, scouts definately got screwed in the late 70s/early 80s by the decision to cancel ARSV and merge the requirement with the emerging MICV program that lead to the Bradley. Its probably a good IFV, but its "scouting in a winnebago."

IMO, the XM800T would have made a good scout vehicle and would probably still be in service today - upgraded with a second gen FLIR, etc. I think the XM800s often get a bad rap. Yet note the following from Hunnicutt's Bradley (page 244):

"In comparing the two XM800 vehicles with the baseline M113A1, the test report concluded that the XM800T was superior to both the M113A1 and the XM800W in overal performance as an ARSV. The XM800W performed well on roads and its quiet operation and high road speed were goals to be achieved for future scout vehicles. However, its limited cross country capability and safety hazards associated with lateral instability and directional control made it less effective than the M113A1."

XM800T



Gotta love the plaque: "Armor will achieve this ground mobility [ie the scout role] by organization, training, mission and a state of mind."



XM800W



Neil


Just gotta' get my Armor Board plug in here...(I always loved that line from Hunnicutt's "Bradley").


Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Roy,
I read that line from "Bradley" as meaning the XM800T had superior performance (in all regimes, including firepower) to the other two. The M113 A1 (note the comparison is to an A1) was superior to the XM800 wheeled version because the wheeled version was squirrely in the handling department.

I think the M113 would have faired MUCH better had the comparison been with not just an M113A2, but one up-engined to the Sheridan powerplant, which was just the same DD engine with a turbo, basically. Note in the other thread here from Ft. Irwin what is going into the OSV's....essentially that. More "Ooomph"....and add a power turret and suitable gun and the 113 starts looking pretty darn good.

BTW, Jeff and I watched an M113 OSV running on the same ground as I drove the halftrack on....it obviously had the blown engine and it could really scoot! Ran like a Sheridan on Nitrous....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:07 am
Post subject: Re: M114/Bradley TOEs

Hi Don! Hi Folks!

"Perhaps I misspoke. Having been in and around the 'Lingle', I assumed a similiar MTOE as a Bradley Scout platoon. Thus mounting more than the crew to enable vehicle functionability and additional dismounted scout activities. Unfortunately, it made sense to me that way."

Not completely Don. From what I remember, the Bradley Cav Platoons had the same number of troops as the older M114/M113 platoons did. The big difference was the older platoons had ten (10) vehicles vis only six (6) vehicles in a CFV unit.

If you look up the BRT TOE which was using Hummers, it had the same number of vehicles and troops as the older M114/M113 battalion scout platoons.

I was headed home from CQ on a Saturday morining at Hunter Liggett MR back in the early 1970s. A team from FMC had one of the XM800Ts running around on one of the firing ranges. I knew what it was as soon as I saw it and pulled over and stopped. I walked over to two civilains and talked with them for a few minutes. They were testing a stabiliser system with live ammo. That vehicle had a M139 auto cannon mounted on it and boy was I impressed! The vehicle was running around, turning, stopping, chargeing off and during all that the turret remained on target and the they were just cutting it apart! I got a chance to walk around it and get a good look at it. I wasn't brave enough to ask if I could climb up and look inside. I wished them luck at winning the ARSV contest. Man, I wished I had a camera with me.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:14 am
Post subject: Re: Scout vehicles

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!


Neil quoted a section from Hunnicutt's Bradley book. For the longest time, I understood the comments about "lateral instability and directional control" in reference to the tracked M800. Sometime back while reading that again, I got the impression that the sentence layout was a bit hard to following and the comments were talking about the wheeled XM800W. I request those who have Hunnicutt's book to take another look at that paragraft.

If the XM800T was superior to both the M113A1 and the XM800W in overal performance, how could it have a lateral instability and directional control problems? If it was superior to the M113A1, then the M113s should have had a greater lateral instability and directional control problems.


I understand the lateral instability bit to refer to the XM800W, not the T. Especially considering that the 800T had superior cross-country mobility. Believe the lateral instability & safety issues were due to the W's articulated body.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: Status for the XM800s

Hi David! Hi Folks!

Found some status for both 800 vehicles in an old 1976 copy of Jane's World Armoured Fighting Vehicles.

Basic Data...........Tracked...........Wheeled
Crew........................both 3
Weight Loaded......8.618 kg..........7.697 kg
Weight empty.......7.980 kg..........not listed
Length.................4.673 m............4.914 m
Width.................. 3.438 m............2.438 m
Height..................2.399 m............2.489 m over top of weapons
Height..................1.663 m............not listed top of the hull
Ground Clearance..... both .406 m
Track...................1.955m..............1.981m (my note: don't understand this one.)
Track Width..........0.482m
Wheelbase.....................................3.682 m
Lenght of track on ground..2.743m
Ground Pressure.....32 kg/cm2..........43 kg/cm2
Maxium Road Speed 88.5 km/hr........104.6 km/hr
Max Reverse speed..40.23 km/hr.......not listed (my note: I think these is very important to scouts)
Max speed in water...7.2 km/hr...........8 km/hr
Acceleration 0-48 km/hr...10 seconds....8 seconds
Range......................both 725 km
Fuel..........................397 liters.............341 liters
Fording......................both amphibious
Gradient....................both 60%
Side Slope.................both 60%
Vertical Obstacle........0.762 m................0.914 m
Trench.......................1.828 m...............not listed
Engine.......................GM 6V53 AT..........GM 6V53T (my note: wonder what the 'A' stands for in the tracked engine? My guess is the 'T' in both engines stands for tubocharger)
Engine type.................both diesel
Engine HP/RPM.............280/2,800............300/2,100
Armament...................both 1x20 mm cannon (My note: the first layout mounted the M139 20mm auto cannon, same as on the M114A2 Lingle) At that time the Army was running the Brushmaster program to pick a new auto cannon. Both 800s had room to mount the any of the four systems that where being looked at.)
....................................both 1x7.62 mm MG (My note: M-60Ds)
Ammo...........................both 20mmx500 rounds and 7.62mmx2,000 rounds
.....................................Rear hatch to pull power pack out (like the M8 AGS)

David, sorry I took so long, this is another one of those threads that I had to wait until I cleared up home PC problems.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:33 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

- Neil_Baumgardner


XM800T



Neil


Hey Neil! Is this your photo sir?

If not Neil's, I would like to know who's took it. I would like to use it as the back ground on my home PC.

?
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:15 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Roy

I have similiar shots...U want it?

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
DCCLarke
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:47 am
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Hey Roy, thanks very much for the statistics! Smile Smile Smile Now I can make a better comparison between the XM800T and the Lynx. My bet is that physically they are very close (except of course in the electronics department).

Thanks again, well worth waiting for!

Best Regards,
David
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

- Roy_A_Lingle


Hey Neil! Is this your photo sir?



That is indeed my picture feel free to use it. In fact, I'd hesitate to say I dont think you really need to get the owner's permission to just use it for your PC's background. But if you were going to post on the web somewhere, then thats different - I'd ask you to give me credit. My appreciated nonetheless.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

- Dontos
Roy

I have similiar shots...U want it?


Hi Don!

Photos received! Thank you SIR!

I am always looking for photos of that vehicle. Someday I hope to try and scratch build a M800(T) with a Bradley turret.

Hey everyone, if you don't already know, check out Mister Bradford's AFV front page, He has added a link to Don's site on the Ontos.

Thanks again Don,
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

- Neil_Baumgardner
- Roy_A_Lingle


Hey Neil! Is this your photo sir?



That is indeed my picture feel free to use it. In fact, I'd hesitate to say I dont think you really need to get the owner's permission to just use it for your PC's background. But if you were going to post on the web somewhere, then thats different - I'd ask you to give me credit. My appreciated nonetheless.

Neil


I wasn't sure either, but though it would be better to ask just in case. Thank you Sir!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Hey Roy!

Hey everyone, if you don't already know, check out Mister Bradford's AFV front page, He has added a link to Don's site on the Ontos.
I am honored to be included in AFV links.

Thanks George!!

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum