±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 664
Total: 664
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Photo Gallery
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Photo Gallery
20: Home
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Photo Gallery
24: Downloads
25: Community Forums
26: Photo Gallery
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Member Screenshots
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Member Screenshots
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Member Screenshots
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Photo Gallery
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Downloads
48: News Archive
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Home
56: Downloads
57: Home
58: Home
59: Downloads
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Your Account
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Downloads
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Downloads
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Downloads
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Photo Gallery
87: Downloads
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Your Account
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Downloads
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: CPGlang
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Photo Gallery
107: Downloads
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Your Account
111: Your Account
112: Downloads
113: Home
114: Photo Gallery
115: Member Screenshots
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Member Screenshots
125: Home
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Community Forums
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Photo Gallery
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Member Screenshots
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Member Screenshots
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Member Screenshots
174: Community Forums
175: Photo Gallery
176: Photo Gallery
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Photo Gallery
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Home
184: Photo Gallery
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Downloads
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Photo Gallery
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Home
207: Community Forums
208: CPGlang
209: Photo Gallery
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: LinkToUs
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Downloads
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Downloads
232: Photo Gallery
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Member Screenshots
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Home
245: News Archive
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Downloads
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: CPGlang
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Photo Gallery
267: Photo Gallery
268: Your Account
269: Downloads
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: CPGlang
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Photo Gallery
281: Member Screenshots
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: CPGlang
287: Home
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: CPGlang
296: Community Forums
297: Home
298: Member Screenshots
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Statistics
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Statistics
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Photo Gallery
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Downloads
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Downloads
328: Community Forums
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Home
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Photo Gallery
338: Your Account
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Photo Gallery
343: CPGlang
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Member Screenshots
348: Photo Gallery
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Photo Gallery
354: Home
355: Community Forums
356: CPGlang
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Member Screenshots
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: CPGlang
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Photo Gallery
371: Photo Gallery
372: Home
373: Statistics
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: CPGlang
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: CPGlang
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Home
390: Home
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Home
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Home
401: Photo Gallery
402: Home
403: Downloads
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Member Screenshots
415: Community Forums
416: Your Account
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: Home
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Photo Gallery
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Member Screenshots
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Home
439: Downloads
440: Member Screenshots
441: Photo Gallery
442: Photo Gallery
443: News Archive
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Photo Gallery
450: Community Forums
451: Downloads
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: CPGlang
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Downloads
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Downloads
473: Photo Gallery
474: Community Forums
475: CPGlang
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Photo Gallery
479: Community Forums
480: Home
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Member Screenshots
484: LinkToUs
485: Photo Gallery
486: Community Forums
487: Home
488: News
489: Statistics
490: Community Forums
491: Home
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Photo Gallery
501: Community Forums
502: Photo Gallery
503: Community Forums
504: Downloads
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Your Account
513: Community Forums
514: Member Screenshots
515: Photo Gallery
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Photo Gallery
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Photo Gallery
527: Your Account
528: Photo Gallery
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Downloads
532: CPGlang
533: Community Forums
534: Home
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Photo Gallery
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: News Archive
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Community Forums
545: Photo Gallery
546: Community Forums
547: Photo Gallery
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Photo Gallery
551: Downloads
552: Photo Gallery
553: Photo Gallery
554: Downloads
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Home
558: Home
559: Community Forums
560: Home
561: Member Screenshots
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Home
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Photo Gallery
569: Statistics
570: Photo Gallery
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Home
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Photo Gallery
579: Home
580: Community Forums
581: Member Screenshots
582: Community Forums
583: Community Forums
584: News Archive
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Downloads
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: CPGlang
591: Statistics
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Photo Gallery
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Downloads
604: Community Forums
605: CPGlang
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: CPGlang
609: Photo Gallery
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Home
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Home
619: Community Forums
620: Downloads
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Downloads
625: Community Forums
626: Member Screenshots
627: Community Forums
628: Photo Gallery
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: Downloads
632: Community Forums
633: Downloads
634: Community Forums
635: Downloads
636: Photo Gallery
637: Community Forums
638: Community Forums
639: CPGlang
640: Community Forums
641: Community Forums
642: Home
643: Home
644: Community Forums
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Statistics
648: Community Forums
649: Photo Gallery
650: Community Forums
651: Community Forums
652: Community Forums
653: Community Forums
654: Downloads
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Photo Gallery
658: Community Forums
659: Member Screenshots
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Member Screenshots
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
brazillian vehicle
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
panthertank
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:08 pm
Post subject: brazillian vehicle

Howdy all, (first ever post)

I saw this picture up in the paper today and was wondering what kind of vehicle it is. It's from the Brazillian army is all that the picture says. Anyway, thanks for any info!
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:24 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Hi Panthertank...thanks for the post!

Rocinha is one of the largest (and in Rio, the largest) favelas (shantytowns...or "city-within-a-city") in the country. Administration is....complex, and criminal gangs co-exist with police in a peculiar relationship that periodically breaks out in "police invasions" and spectacular gun battles. This pic seems likely to relate to a police action aimed at drug trafficing and they don't go in there lightly armed.

Rocinha is located on a steep incline with a lot of convoluted streets, as you can see.

I don't know what the vehicle is....might it be locally made by Bernardini or somebody?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

- panthertank
Howdy all, (first ever post)

I saw this picture up in the paper today and was wondering what kind of vehicle it is. It's from the Brazillian army is all that the picture says. Anyway, thanks for any info!


That is an EE-11 Urutu, made by the former Brazilian armored vehicle manufacturer ENGESA...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EE-11_Urutu

I posted several pics of it on this thread:
www.com-central.net/in...amp;t=3227

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:31 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Ooooh, that doesn't sound promising - "former" manufacturer?
I tried looking up Engesa's fate on the net and I must admit my my inability to speak Portugese has rather hampered the effort. I don't know if the line "Setenta destes foram adquiridos pela Empresa NIMDA Co. Ltd de Israel em 2002." means that the company was acquired by an Israeli firm or just some of its products were purchased.
Danged mono-lingual American! Confused

Note how the Cascaval below looks like a slightly enlarged M8 Greyhound in this shot!

Back to top
View user's profile
Uhu_Fledermaus
Aircraft Demolition Expert

Offline Offline
Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 4369
Location: Blaricum, The Netherlands ~GMT+1
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:50 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

"Setenta destes foram adquiridos pela Empresa NIMDA Co. Ltd de Israel em 2002."


70 vehicles where acquired by the Israely company NIMDA Co in 2002


Last edited by Uhu_Fledermaus on Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile ICQ Number MSN Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

- mike_Duplessis
Ooooh, that doesn't sound promising - "former" manufacturer?
I tried looking up Engesa's fate on the net and I must admit my my inability to speak Portugese has rather hampered the effort. I don't know if the line "Setenta destes foram adquiridos pela Empresa NIMDA Co. Ltd de Israel em 2002." means that the company was acquired by an Israeli firm or just some of its products were purchased.
Danged mono-lingual American! Confused

Note how the Cascaval below looks like a slightly enlarged M8 Greyhound in this shot!


Looking elsewhere on the same page:
"NIMDA, the Israeli concern, acquired some 100 vehicles, demonstrating the continued viability of this product by modernization and refitting" - or words to that effect. It goes on to note that NIMDA has a history of modernization of older designs that continues the useful service life of the selected vehicles, of which several examples are given, like the Sherman.
Basically ENGESA is presenting this as a vote-of-confidence that the design/manufacture still has some legs. Not an acquisiton of the company itself.
That's a pretty good webpage...with a nice poster of three designs in color, definitely a keeper....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:01 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

It appears they went bankrupt in 1990/1993:

"By the mid-1980s, Engesa had expanded to a group of twelve subsidiaries and employed more than 5,000 people. By that time, the company had spent US$100 million on the development of the Osório, a main battle tank, but was unable to find a buyer for it. The Osório project came to an abrupt end with Operation Desert Storm against Iraq in 1991. In 1990 Engesa had won the evaluation process by the Saudis. After Desert Storm, Brazil was no match for United States competition, given the close ties that developed between Saudi Arabia and the United States during the war with Iraq.

"In early 1990, Brazil's two major manufacturers, Engesa and Avibrás, filed for a concordata [the equivalent of chapter-11 bankruptcy]. By the mid-1990s it appeared to some that Brazil's arms industry had virtually disappeared. Engesa was dismembered, with some of its companies sold to private interests, and the ordnance-related firms taken over by the state and integrated with Imbel (Indústria de Material Bélico - Industry of War Materiél).

"Engesa Engenheiros Espacializados SA is based in Sao Paulo, Brazil, and manufactures 4x4 and 6x6 military trucks, transmissions and other components."

www.globalsecurity.org...engesa.htm

"The EE-T1 Osório was a very modern tank developed with a unique combination of firepower, mobility and armor protection. It was directly compared with the Abrams M1 (US), Challenger (UK) and others during tests in the Middle East, demonstrating its excellent performance. This tank has not reached production, however, being a victim of the company's financial problems.

"Engesa, based in São José dos Campos, Brazil, went into bankruptcy in 1993."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engesa

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:16 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Bummer. Proabably goes a long way toward explaining those M60A3's they picked up in a garage sale from the U.S...(instead of making their own, or modifying Leopards as had been done some in the past...)
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Actually I believe a former ENGESA employee, who I actually met once, was a lurker and occasional poster on the old board - havent seen him around here yet though.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:38 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

I once wrote an short article for AFV News on 90mm low pressure guns and an Engesa executive wrote back to George Bradford (our webmaster) pointing out some of my goofs in regards to the Engesa products. So Engesa was aware of AFV News.


Last edited by mike_Duplessis on Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

- Neil_Baumgardner
Actually I believe a former ENGESA employee, who I actually met once, was a lurker and occasional poster on the old board - havent seen him around here yet though.

Neil


Jose Antonio Valls, by any chance? Don't know if he had Engesa connections, but anyway haven't seen him around for quite a while...I should send him an email to see whus'up....
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:38 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Nope, another guy. I sent him an e-mail to see what he's up to.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Reginaldo_Bacchi
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 18, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

After several tries finally with the help of Neil I managed to re register.

I entered into this site before the magic 1 million viewers figure.

Yes, I am the person Neil and Mike have written about. I worked at ENGESA from 1977 until the bitter end.

This question of the NIMDA purchase of those Cascavels is very strange and up to now I coudn't find any more news about it.

Doug Kibbey wrote: "... Bummer. Proabably goes a long way toward explaining those M60A3's they picked up in a garage sale from the U.S...(instead of making their own, or modifying Leopards as had been done some in the past...)"

Doug, your aproach is completely wrong. The M60s were offered by the US Government (I don't know through what agency), and they were refused by the Brazilian Army, who had decided to equip the armoured battalions with Leopard 1s, bought from Belgiun.

However our president Mr. Fernando Henrique Cardoso was doing everything to ingratiate itself with the American government, as he wanted the US backing for his desire of having Brasil as a permanent member of the UN security commitee. Therefore he ordered the Army Minister to accept those tanks, which he grudgingly did.

Any other question on ENGESA, please, submit and I will do everything to present a satisfactory answer.

Reg
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:18 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

- Reginaldo_Bacchi

Doug Kibbey wrote: "... Bummer. Proabably goes a long way toward explaining those M60A3's they picked up in a garage sale from the U.S...(instead of making their own, or modifying Leopards as had been done some in the past...)"

Doug, your aproach is completely wrong. The M60s were offered by the US Government (I don't know through what agency), and they were refused by the Brazilian Army, who had decided to equip the armoured battalions with Leopard 1s, bought from Belgiun.

However our president Mr. Fernando Henrique Cardoso was doing everything to ingratiate itself with the American government, as he wanted the US backing for his desire of having Brasil as a permanent member of the UN security commitee. Therefore he ordered the Army Minister to accept those tanks, which he grudgingly did.

Reg

Reg,
Chill out, Dude...it was just an expression meaning no offense. And quite apart from that, at least one cavalry regimental commander expressed to me personally that he considered it the best available option bringing with it several capabilities that the armored cavalry would not otherwise have had. This might have annoyed some, but I'd call that a pretty good testimonial from an "end-user" that had no reason whatsoever to feel the need to placate little ol' me.

Regards,
Doug
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
GeorgJ
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 31, 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: brazillian vehicle

Hi All,
Hi Doug! Hi Reginaldo! Doug, Reginaldo meant no offense. Interestingly enough, some of the M-60's Brasil recieved were from the New Jersey National Guard, at Ft. Drum!
Anyway, my understanding of Engesa's demise went something like this: the Saudis contacted Engesa about building an MBT in the 40-ton range (along the lines of the AMX-40). The design was kept light in order to tranverse the deserts in Saudi Arabia, which are mainly sand (as opposed to rock). Engesa went out on a limb and stretched itself financially to pull it off and managed to do so. However, the US got wind of the deal and didn't like the idea of Brasil cutting into its arms business and its "selling to the highest bidder" policy (with no politcal strings attached, unlike U.S. arms deals). When the Engesa team arrived, the found the U.S., English and German M1's, Challengers and Leopards, respectively, waiting for them. The Osorio may have been equally capable as the other vehicles, but came up short on armor. This effectively ended the Osorio's life and was the beginning of the end for Engesa. The Brasilian government tested the Osorio, but ended up not adopting it; why, I don't know (possibly on the grounds of cost). Am I totally off base on this Reginaldo?
Regards,
Georg
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum