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Off Topic-Pack 75's
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 9:51 pm
Post subject: Off Topic-Pack 75's

Memorial Day 21 Gun Salute at Fort Knox

[img]http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/500/35303221gun.jpg[/img]

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mike_Duplessis
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

Huh! Somehow those howitzers look more substantial than I supposed they would. I had a mental picture of the 75mm Pack howitzer being rather ...um ...petite, I guess.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

I think it is rather 'petite'

I think the 105mm M101 or the 3" AT guns that the Old Guard uses are much more impressive.

Also a 5 gun battery??

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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:46 am
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I think it is rather 'petite'
I think the 105mm M101 or the 3" AT guns that the Old Guard uses are much more impressive.


Walk up and stand next to a Pack 75. They are 'petite'. I think the Old Guard's AT Guns are the best looking saluting cannons.

- bsmart

Also a 5 gun battery??


Number of tubes in a saluting battery doesn't really matter. The thing that counts is the number of rounds fired. My guess would be that a long time ago when that unit first received those Pack 75s, there were six of them. Over time and due to a lack of spare parts, one of them was taken out of service.

Here at Ft. Bliss, there is a single Pack 75 near the Post's main flag pole.
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MarkHolloway
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 8:15 am
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

Seems like I heard someone say there is normally 7 guns. Guess they need parts.

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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 8:47 am
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

I think it is rather 'petite'
I think the 105mm M101 or the 3" AT guns that the Old Guard uses are much more impressive.


Walk up and stand next to a Pack 75. They are 'petite'. I think the Old Guard's AT Guns are the best looking saluting cannons.


I agree but if you can't get some of those I think the old 105 looked pretty good too.

- bsmart

Also a 5 gun battery??


Number of tubes in a saluting battery doesn't really matter. The thing that counts is the number of rounds fired. My guess would be that a long time ago when that unit first received those Pack 75s, there were six of them. Over time and due to a lack of spare parts, one of them was taken out of service.

Here at Ft. Bliss, there is a single Pack 75 near the Post's main flag pole.
Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out! :)[/quote]

I know that the number doesn't really matter but it just surprised me that they didn't stick with a standard 4 gun battery for display purposes. Mark mentions in a later message about using a 7 gun battery. On the surface that seems to make sense (3 rounds per gun would be 21 shots) but from experience a long time ago firing salutes it never seems to work out that way. Jams, misfires, or worse sloppy counting by the Battery Exec (who was supposed to keep count of the number actually fired) always kept it interesting

"If I wasn't a gunner I wouldn't be here GUN ONE FIRE
Away From my wife and family dear GUN TWO FIRE"

Oh and if you are using the 'flag pole gun' always check the bore first. I mean bend over look up the bore from the breach and make SURE no one left you a present (also makes sure you removed the tampion) A wad of flaming toilet paper does look impressive as it streaks across the parade ground in the twilight but Duty Officers usually don't see it that way.

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binder001
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

"Oh and if you are using the 'flag pole gun' always check the bore first. I mean bend over look up the bore from the breach and make SURE no one left you a present (also makes sure you removed the tampion) A wad of flaming toilet paper does look impressive as it streaks across the parade ground in the twilight but Duty Officers usually don't see it that way."

I remember a family story about two fellows coming in late and looking for a place to hide their beer cans. The salute gun was close and the next morning the post was awakened to BOOM- clank-clank-clank.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 4:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

- binder001

I remember a family story about two fellows coming in late and looking for a place to hide their beer cans. The salute gun was close and the next morning the post was awakened to BOOM- clank-clank-clank.


Russ Buchan has a wonderful story (as are all of his) about a salute gun and a hole punched in a building that wasn't intended. I forget the details, but he regaled us with something like this on the old board once. Maybe he'll chime in again....
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 8:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

- Doug_Kibbey
- binder001

I remember a family story about two fellows coming in late and looking for a place to hide their beer cans. The salute gun was close and the next morning the post was awakened to BOOM- clank-clank-clank.


Russ Buchan has a wonderful story (as are all of his) about a salute gun and a hole punched in a building that wasn't intended. I forget the details, but he regaled us with something like this on the old board once. Maybe he'll chime in again....
The story at VMI was that one time some students at neighboring Washington & Lee university loaded the 'Evening Gun' ( A 105mm Howitzer) on the VMI parade ground with marbles. The gun points across the Parade Ground at The Administaration Building, Alumni Hall and The George C. Marshall Library. The story goes that the marbles took out many windows in Alumni Hall and embedded in the Very solid oak doors of The Library and Admin buildings, much sandblasting removed the scars off the stone exteriors of the buildings.

Then there was a time the enitire Cadet battery was set up to fire a salute for some visiting general. In this case the battery is set up at the far end of the Parade Field firing back towards the 4 story Barracks building. There were very heavy low clouds that day. On past occasions when there were salutes with low clouds cadets excused from duty would report that they could watch the concussion from the guns make glass vibrate in the windows on the front side of barracks. Onthe Parade ground you could feel the concussion waves (espicially in A company at the end of the formation nearest the guns and especially if they didn't elevate them as much as they should). Well on this day the concussion was especially strong and at about the 4th round the tinkle of falling glass could be heard.

The low clouds had reflected the sound waves back down and by a freak of the clouds altitude the resonance point of the ground wave and the sky wave was at the front of Main barracks (The physics of the occurance were used in an example in engineering Physics for at least the next several semesters) bunches of windows were broken that friday afternoon. Many cadets thought they would get a free pass at Saturday room inspection the next day. No such luck. Instead of 'spots on window' demerits they got 'glass fragments on floor'!

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

The story at VMI was that one time some students at neighboring Washington & Lee university loaded the 'Evening Gun' ( A 105mm Howitzer) on the VMI parade ground with marbles. The gun points across the Parade Ground at The Administaration Building, Alumni Hall and The George C. Marshall Library. The story goes that the marbles took out many windows in Alumni Hall and embedded in the Very solid oak doors of The Library and Admin buildings, much sandblasting removed the scars off the stone exteriors of the buildings.


That was just irresponsible..there could easily have been casualties.

Best I can do was another 3rd Army ROTC school, Oak Ridge Military Institute (now "Academy") where the entire field gun miraculously materialized on the front lawn of the Commandant of Cadets several hundred meters down the road. Come morning, he was not amused in the least. (I disavow any personal involvement in this sordid affair, just in case).

That gun is today firmly affixed to it's station in front of the Admin building....
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C_Sherman
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 10:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

- bsmart
The story at VMI was that one time some students at neighboring Washington & Lee university loaded the 'Evening Gun' ( A 105mm Howitzer) on the VMI parade ground with marbles.


Hey now wait a minute here. My Dad went to W&L. Uhhh, wait...when did you say this happened? Rolling Eyes

On the other hand, knowing a few VMI grads, I'm not sure that I would take their word that it was W&L that did it. The grads I've known are MORE than capable of having done such a thing before quietly slinking away. And they surely wouldn't ever plant a rumor that some-(otherwise unidentifiable but possibly from a rival school)-one else had done it... Cool

C

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Skeet
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

- bsmart
Washington & Lee university loaded the 'Evening Gun' ( A 105mm Howitzer) on the VMI parade ground with marbles.


Wouldn't the marbles roll out when the breech was opened?
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

- Skeet
- bsmart
Washington & Lee university loaded the 'Evening Gun' ( A 105mm Howitzer) on the VMI parade ground with marbles.


Wouldn't the marbles roll out when the breech was opened?


Hence the saying, "VMI has lost it's marbles"...
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:13 am
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

- Skeet
- bsmart
Washington & Lee university loaded the 'Evening Gun' ( A 105mm Howitzer) on the VMI parade ground with marbles.


Wouldn't the marbles roll out when the breech was opened?


Not when a wad was pushed down the barrel before the marbles were inserted. It was common for the W&L students to push toilet paper or other oddities down the barrel so the Frats had learned over time what had a chance of escaping a sloppy barrel check before the guard team fired the evening gun.

It was also not unusual for the gun crew (not a real crew just the cadet assigned as corporal of the guard and a cadet private, both of whom had been assigned as part of the rotating daily guard) to forget to remove the rubber tampion. Then with the entire Corps of Cadets in evening formation (we marched straight from retreat to dinner) to hear the strange whoop, whoop as the tampion flew across the Parade Ground. We all knew what had happened and that someone had just earned 10 demerits if he found the tampion and 15 if he didn't.

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Russ_Buchan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:51 am
Post subject: Re: Off Topic-Pack 75's

Doug said,

"Russ Buchan has a wonderful story (as are all of his) about a salute gun and a hole punched in a building that wasn't intended. I forget the details, but he regaled us with something like this on the old board once. Maybe he'll chime in again.... "

Sir:

My client, Mr. Buchan wants us to understand that this alleged incident might or might not have actually taken place.

The alleged projectile is said to have been the cleaning rammer head, detached from its staff, and wound lightly through the holes provided, with a strip of T-shirt.

The most likely-mythical pranksters were alluded to have performed this drill amnt times before, albeit in the guise of maritime pirates, and mimicing their muzzle-loading practice. The staff was believed to have been reversed, and the cleaning rammer (please forgive inaccurate nomenclature of imaginary boys) easily pushed down the bore to well fore of the chamber itself, so as not to impede the insertion of the salute charge, had such a charge ever have existed, and the accidental suspicion that such chambering difficulties would have inspired in the Provost Marshall's man who traditionally yanked the lanyard while consulting his watch. The mythical "boys" would have retired quickly at the approach of the MP, and taken refuge beneath the usual structure (as rumor may have it).

A hypothetical observer, had one been present, might have noticed the man's surprise had the gun recoiled, and followed his gaze to the sky to see a tumbling, yawing, hooting thing that surely could not have been possible.

These hypothetical "boys" may have been among the many such who habitually gathered under the Victorian bandstand a hundred or so meters away from the alleged gun dysfunction.

While such boys, some time later, had they been recently released from Junior High, Dependants and Townie friends alike, could have been enjoying such delights as Cherry Phosphates and Green River Floats in the snackbar below the Provost Marshall's building, after a swell new haircut at the Barber Shop right up the basement hall, it is not outside the realm of possibility that a couple of dusty MPs may have visited the snack bar griping about having to have tracked down a possibly-imaginary 'projectile' that had reputedly impacted the old Mule Stable. We may also (strictly) imagine a hugely-impacted 105mm Bell Rammer, laid out on the table for the other MP's to see, so stuffed with hay and tarpaper that had it had not been a figment of one child's imagination, back in the heady days of 1953, the image would yet be stunningly realistic in its implications.

Away from the hypothetical, there did not exist at that time inhabited structures in what might have been a putative impact area. Or so I'm told,.

I am sure Mister Kibbey has my client mixed up with someone else entirely in this 'matter'.

Spudleigh Curmudgeon, Esq.
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