±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 802
Total: 802
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Downloads
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Photo Gallery
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: CPGlang
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Photo Gallery
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Downloads
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Statistics
37: Home
38: Photo Gallery
39: Downloads
40: News
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Downloads
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Downloads
70: Community Forums
71: Downloads
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Photo Gallery
76: Community Forums
77: Downloads
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Downloads
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Statistics
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Home
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Photo Gallery
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: News
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Downloads
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Photo Gallery
137: Photo Gallery
138: Community Forums
139: Photo Gallery
140: Member Screenshots
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Downloads
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Statistics
150: CPGlang
151: Member Screenshots
152: Member Screenshots
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Photo Gallery
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Home
167: Photo Gallery
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: CPGlang
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: CPGlang
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Photo Gallery
180: Home
181: Your Account
182: Community Forums
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Photo Gallery
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Community Forums
195: Downloads
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: News
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Home
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Home
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: CPGlang
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: CPGlang
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Photo Gallery
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Photo Gallery
243: Home
244: Home
245: Community Forums
246: Your Account
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Member Screenshots
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Your Account
260: Downloads
261: Photo Gallery
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Photo Gallery
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Photo Gallery
268: Home
269: Photo Gallery
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Home
273: Home
274: Home
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Home
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Photo Gallery
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Home
298: Downloads
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Home
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Home
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: News Archive
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Home
326: Home
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: CPGlang
331: CPGlang
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Community Forums
336: Statistics
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: News Archive
343: Photo Gallery
344: Community Forums
345: Home
346: Member Screenshots
347: Your Account
348: Your Account
349: News Archive
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Member Screenshots
354: CPGlang
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Your Account
358: Downloads
359: Community Forums
360: Home
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Community Forums
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Community Forums
370: Downloads
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Community Forums
374: Downloads
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Home
380: Downloads
381: Your Account
382: Community Forums
383: Home
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Home
387: Community Forums
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Your Account
391: Community Forums
392: Downloads
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Community Forums
397: Statistics
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Home
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Home
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Home
417: Home
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Photo Gallery
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Photo Gallery
428: Community Forums
429: Photo Gallery
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Photo Gallery
433: Home
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Photo Gallery
438: Downloads
439: Community Forums
440: Home
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Your Account
448: News Archive
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Home
452: Photo Gallery
453: Downloads
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Home
457: Community Forums
458: CPGlang
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Photo Gallery
464: Photo Gallery
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Home
469: Photo Gallery
470: Community Forums
471: Home
472: Community Forums
473: Home
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Home
479: Home
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Home
485: Downloads
486: Home
487: Home
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Downloads
491: Community Forums
492: Home
493: Photo Gallery
494: Home
495: Downloads
496: Community Forums
497: Photo Gallery
498: Community Forums
499: Photo Gallery
500: Photo Gallery
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Downloads
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Member Screenshots
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Home
521: Community Forums
522: Photo Gallery
523: News
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: Downloads
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Downloads
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Downloads
545: Home
546: Community Forums
547: Community Forums
548: Photo Gallery
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Downloads
554: Home
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Downloads
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Statistics
567: Member Screenshots
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Home
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Photo Gallery
577: Downloads
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Photo Gallery
582: Photo Gallery
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Photo Gallery
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Downloads
593: Community Forums
594: Statistics
595: Photo Gallery
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums
599: Community Forums
600: Home
601: Community Forums
602: Photo Gallery
603: Community Forums
604: CPGlang
605: Home
606: Community Forums
607: Community Forums
608: Photo Gallery
609: Community Forums
610: Member Screenshots
611: Photo Gallery
612: Downloads
613: Photo Gallery
614: Downloads
615: Home
616: Community Forums
617: Photo Gallery
618: Photo Gallery
619: Photo Gallery
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Photo Gallery
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Home
626: Community Forums
627: Home
628: Photo Gallery
629: CPGlang
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Community Forums
635: Home
636: Community Forums
637: Photo Gallery
638: Community Forums
639: Home
640: Community Forums
641: Home
642: Photo Gallery
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Downloads
646: Community Forums
647: Photo Gallery
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Community Forums
651: Photo Gallery
652: Community Forums
653: Photo Gallery
654: Photo Gallery
655: Community Forums
656: Community Forums
657: Downloads
658: Home
659: Community Forums
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Community Forums
664: Community Forums
665: Home
666: Community Forums
667: Photo Gallery
668: Photo Gallery
669: Community Forums
670: Downloads
671: Community Forums
672: Photo Gallery
673: Community Forums
674: Statistics
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Community Forums
678: Photo Gallery
679: Community Forums
680: Home
681: Photo Gallery
682: Photo Gallery
683: Community Forums
684: Community Forums
685: Community Forums
686: Community Forums
687: Photo Gallery
688: Community Forums
689: Community Forums
690: CPGlang
691: Community Forums
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Community Forums
696: Home
697: Community Forums
698: Community Forums
699: Home
700: News Archive
701: Community Forums
702: Community Forums
703: Community Forums
704: Home
705: Community Forums
706: Photo Gallery
707: Downloads
708: Community Forums
709: Home
710: Community Forums
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Photo Gallery
714: Photo Gallery
715: Community Forums
716: Community Forums
717: Community Forums
718: Community Forums
719: Community Forums
720: Community Forums
721: Community Forums
722: Photo Gallery
723: Home
724: Community Forums
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Downloads
728: Community Forums
729: Home
730: Community Forums
731: Community Forums
732: Home
733: Member Screenshots
734: Community Forums
735: Member Screenshots
736: Photo Gallery
737: Community Forums
738: CPGlang
739: Photo Gallery
740: Community Forums
741: Community Forums
742: Home
743: Community Forums
744: Home
745: Community Forums
746: Community Forums
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Your Account
750: Community Forums
751: Community Forums
752: Community Forums
753: Community Forums
754: Community Forums
755: Home
756: Home
757: Photo Gallery
758: CPGlang
759: Community Forums
760: Home
761: Community Forums
762: Community Forums
763: Photo Gallery
764: Community Forums
765: Community Forums
766: Photo Gallery
767: Photo Gallery
768: Community Forums
769: Home
770: Home
771: Community Forums
772: Community Forums
773: Home
774: Community Forums
775: News
776: Community Forums
777: Community Forums
778: Community Forums
779: Community Forums
780: Community Forums
781: Community Forums
782: Downloads
783: Community Forums
784: Community Forums
785: Community Forums
786: Photo Gallery
787: Community Forums
788: Community Forums
789: Community Forums
790: Community Forums
791: Home
792: Community Forums
793: Photo Gallery
794: Community Forums
795: Community Forums
796: Community Forums
797: Home
798: Community Forums
799: Community Forums
800: Community Forums
801: Community Forums
802: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BenjaminLiottel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:41 am
Post subject: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?

Here is a summary of all the information I can glean from books I own and online:

"TG Tank (Tank Grote or Grotte) was a heavy tank of very advanced design, with low silhouette and high power, built by Russia in 1931. It incorporated an unusual, almost futuristic, design with turret rounded on top, a feature 15 years before its time. A very sleek, heavy design, it sported a 76.2 A-19 cannon in the lower turret, a 37mm PS-2 gun in the upper turret, aswell as three 7.62mm M-1910 machine guns in the lower turret, and two 7.62 DT machine guns in hull sides. It could run on roadwheels or tracks. The tank was jointly developed by the Red Army of the Soviet Union, and the German Army of the Weimar Republic of Germany. After completion and testing of the TG-1, all German engineers were repatriated from the USSR. Due to a manufacturing error the lower turret of the prototype was fixed. The engine designed for use in the TG was not completed in time, and an M-6 engine was substituted, although it did not fit properly in the engine compartment. Max armor was 50mm. Max speed 25mph."

Could this be true? Could the TG-1 have been a joint Russian and German design? Nothing like the TG-1 would appear in Russia for many years - it does seem to be a 'futuristic' design. Both Germany and Russia were eager to try and gain know-how about building tanks, so I could believe this story.

Can anyone back up this with facts?

Here are some pictures of the TG-1:
ww2photo.mimerswell.co.../06044.jpg
www.militaertechnik-de...tart23.gif
www.nemo.nu/ibisportal.../grote.jpg
www.onwar.com/tanks/us...ans/tg.gif

Furthermore, does anyone have any aditional pictures of this prototype? If this indeed was a partly German design, I'm sure all the Panzer Heads out there would love to learn all about it! It's a very interesting design. In the line-art of it, the front view of the turret is reminiscent of an Abrams!

---Liottel.

P.S. One of my tank books seems to think that "Grotte Tank" simply means "Heavy Tank" in Russian - but the battlefield.ru website says that the leader of the small group of German engineers sent to build the first prototype Heavy Tank for Russia (because they simply couldn't do it on their own) were led by 'Edward Grotte'. The lessons learned by the Russians during the building of the single TG-1 Heavy Tank would be put to use to build the T-35 Heavy Tank, and greatly increased Russias knowledge of armor building. Could the "Grotte Tank" have been named after the German engineer who helped build it ??

Keep in mind, virtually all information on early Russian armor is muddled with misinformation. But, why Russians would freely admit to their first heavy-tank being brought to life by Germans they hired, is beyond me.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:43 am
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?

Interesting. The dome type turrets appear in other designs of that era Look at some of the British designs like the 'Independent'.

I know we don't have many angles to look at but I have a little problem with thinking the lower gun position is in a rotating turret. The dimensions just don't look right. It may be that it is designed with a large overhang (but it doesn't seem to have enough clearance from the hull top) but the fore to aft dimension looks to great to be rotating turret. And then there would be the problems of having one turret rotating on topof the other and not on the same axis.

It is an interesting design and I can almost see the KV series growing out of it.

By the way there seems to be a problem with your 4th link (the one to onwar.com)

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Tanklord
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:20 pm
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russia

Could "Grotte" be "Grosse"? The lettering used in Old german makes "S" look like a "T" sometimes. Just my thoughts on the name.

_________________
The only thing to do when a son-of-a-bitch looks
cross-eyed at you is to beat the hell out of him right
then and there
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
BenjaminLiottel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:44 pm
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russia

Sorry folks, the fourth link is from a site that apparently doesn't like linking to its images... Here is the same image, (Copyright Maxim Kolomiets).

s1.simpload.com/070844...274208.gif

Yes, the extremities of the turret would not be where the turret ring was. Clearly it had some sort of modern 'turret overhang'.

I do not think the fact that the upper turret revolved on a different axis as the main would be much of an issue. For instance, the M3 tank had a secondary machine-gun turret on top of its primary 37mm gun turret - and it clearly rotated on a different axis. It would be basically impossible for the 37mm gun to be brought to bear on one target, while at the same time the turret cupola machine gunner brought his gun to bear on a different target.

Also, the later T-35 Heavy Tank was clearly inspired by the Independent tank, its turret was taller, and even had a sort of dome like top to some of the models. This tank however, had a squat primary turret - the secondary turret was domed, yes, but the primary had much more in common with far later tanks than the Independent.

---Liottel.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?

I don't think there was much intent in the M3 Lee for the machinegun to be used for independent fire. If I remember correctly in some contemporary sources it was listed as an anti-aircraft gun. (another flawed concept) That was also the tank commanders position so he would tend to be occupied with directing the fighting of the 75mm and/or the 37mm gun.

I think recoil would be a problem with a gun as large as a 37mm mounted in a secondary turret off the centerline of rotation. Everytime the 37mm was fired when it wasn'tpointed down the centerline of the main turret it would put stress on the rotating gear of the main turret which would potentially affect the aim or operation of the main turret gun. It would also complicate gunlaying and target tracking for the 37mm. But all these are things that would be found out during trials and operational use. The late 20's and early 30's were a time of innovation in armored warfare

It would be interesting to find out details of the suspension. Did it use torsion bars, large coil springs like the Christie tanks, or something else. The potential for wheel or track operation is also interesting. That is a complexity that I don't remember seeing in any other German designs

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:07 am
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russia

Luckily I have done a lot of research on Edward Grote and previous messages on him can probably still be found in the old archives...

- BenjaminLiottel

Could this be true? Could the TG-1 have been a joint Russian and German design? Nothing like the TG-1 would appear in Russia for many years - it does seem to be a 'futuristic' design. Both Germany and Russia were eager to try and gain know-how about building tanks, so I could believe this story.


After visiting Germany in late 1929/early 1930 Members of the Soviet Mission invited german engineer Edward Grote to the USSR. After his arrival, Grote began work at the AVO-5 Design Office, within the Aviation Engine Department of the 'Bolshevik' Factory. He led a team that was engaged on designing on a heavily armored, medium-weight tank as an alternative to the maneuverable T-24 . In 1930, prototypes of the experimental, TG Tank (Tank Grote) aka T-22 were subjected to trials and found to have some faults. Despite rectifying the faults that were found during testing, it was decided that the TG Tank would not be placed in production. Further work on the TG Tank was suspended and the services of Edward Grote were no longer required and in August 1933, Grote was requested to leave the USSR.

He then went to France and worked at Renault on the experimental G1 R series of tanks. towit the G1 R [75mm] - French experimental model and the G1 R [47mm] - Original french concept with 47mm in turret and 75mm in hull.

On the declaration of war he moved to the USA and is rumoured to have been involved in the design of the Lee & Sherman tanks. His speciality seems to have been cast turrets and there is more than a passing resemblance between the Lee and the G1R 47mm version.

Incidentally the Renault G1 R holds the record for being the only tank ever to have been rejected by an army because it EXCEEDED the official requirements.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
BenjaminLiottel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:33 am
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?

Awesome information Jim!!

This was certainly one of the coolest tanks of its time. I mean, it had very good armor for the time (50mm max!), a good top speed for the time, and it had a 75mm gun AND a 37mm!

I wonder if the 75mm was a high-velocity gun? It had a long barrel, so I'm guessing it was a true heavy tank cannon, rather than some sort of howitzer. That would mean it could easily out-gun any tank in the world for literally years and years, until 75mm guns became commonplace in WWII!

Amazing design. Can you enlighten us on whether the bottom turret did indeed have traverse, or limited traverse, or was it fixed? I read that there was a manufacturing accident, and in the final product the bottom turret was fixed - but it was meant to be able to turn.

---Liottel.
Back to top
View user's profile
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russia

- BenjaminLiottel
Awesome information Jim!!

This was certainly one of the coolest tanks of its time. I mean, it had very good armor for the time (50mm max!), a good top speed for the time, and it had a 75mm gun AND a 37mm!

I wonder if the 75mm was a high-velocity gun? It had a long barrel, so I'm guessing it was a true heavy tank cannon, rather than some sort of howitzer. That would mean it could easily out-gun any tank in the world for literally years and years, until 75mm guns became commonplace in WWII!

Amazing design. Can you enlighten us on whether the bottom turret did indeed have traverse, or limited traverse, or was it fixed? I read that there was a manufacturing accident, and in the final product the bottom turret was fixed - but it was meant to be able to turn.

---Liottel.


Check the provided link, it should answer all your questions. I would have provided the link sooner but the Russian Battlefield site was down for a long , long time.

Tank Grotte (TG) at the Russian Battlefield

Be sure to check the rest of the site as well, it is truly excellent!

Cheers,
Rik

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
BenjaminLiottel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:08 pm
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?

Fascinating stuff!

It still doesn't entirely put to rest the turret question though. Yes, by the time it was built the lower 'turret' could not move, only the top turret could rotat. But, was that how it was designed all along? Or, as I read in a different web page, was there a manufacturing problem and while trying to make the rotating lower turret, it was decided to make it fixed?

A gun that can only be aimed around ±10° in all directions seems to have quite limited tactical use, especially with how long this vehicle is. It would have to stop, and pivot on its tracks to try and sight in an enemy - yet the vehicle is so long, pivoting would be very hard. Vehicles like the StuG could pivot easily because they had a very short body. So I am inclined to believe the lower turret was originally meant to rotate, although obviously I seem to have no proof.

---Vil.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum