±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 684
Total: 684
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Downloads
03: Photo Gallery
04: CPGlang
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Downloads
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Your Account
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Downloads
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Downloads
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Downloads
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Home
42: CPGlang
43: Photo Gallery
44: Downloads
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Photo Gallery
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: News
56: Community Forums
57: Downloads
58: Your Account
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Downloads
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Downloads
90: Downloads
91: Home
92: Member Screenshots
93: Community Forums
94: Member Screenshots
95: Photo Gallery
96: Downloads
97: Statistics
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: News Archive
106: Community Forums
107: Downloads
108: Community Forums
109: Your Account
110: Photo Gallery
111: Photo Gallery
112: Community Forums
113: Photo Gallery
114: Home
115: Downloads
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Statistics
119: Photo Gallery
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Photo Gallery
127: Photo Gallery
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Downloads
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Downloads
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: LinkToUs
141: Photo Gallery
142: CPGlang
143: Community Forums
144: Your Account
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Home
152: Community Forums
153: CPGlang
154: Community Forums
155: CPGlang
156: Community Forums
157: Downloads
158: Community Forums
159: Photo Gallery
160: Community Forums
161: Downloads
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: Photo Gallery
171: Downloads
172: Photo Gallery
173: Photo Gallery
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: CPGlang
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Downloads
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Photo Gallery
194: Member Screenshots
195: Photo Gallery
196: Downloads
197: Community Forums
198: Photo Gallery
199: Member Screenshots
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Photo Gallery
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Downloads
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Community Forums
216: Home
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Photo Gallery
222: Photo Gallery
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Home
231: Photo Gallery
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Photo Gallery
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Photo Gallery
242: Home
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Member Screenshots
247: Photo Gallery
248: Home
249: Home
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Your Account
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Your Account
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Community Forums
273: CPGlang
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Member Screenshots
283: Photo Gallery
284: CPGlang
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Downloads
289: Photo Gallery
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Photo Gallery
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: LinkToUs
300: Community Forums
301: Your Account
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: News
305: Photo Gallery
306: Home
307: Home
308: Downloads
309: Community Forums
310: Downloads
311: CPGlang
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Home
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Member Screenshots
320: Community Forums
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Photo Gallery
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Home
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Downloads
344: CPGlang
345: Downloads
346: Your Account
347: Downloads
348: Photo Gallery
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: CPGlang
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Photo Gallery
356: Community Forums
357: Home
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Photo Gallery
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Community Forums
377: Downloads
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Downloads
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Photo Gallery
389: Community Forums
390: Home
391: Community Forums
392: Downloads
393: Community Forums
394: Member Screenshots
395: Home
396: Photo Gallery
397: Photo Gallery
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Your Account
401: Community Forums
402: CPGlang
403: Community Forums
404: CPGlang
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Community Forums
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Supporters
411: Photo Gallery
412: Statistics
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Community Forums
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Home
419: Home
420: Home
421: CPGlang
422: Community Forums
423: Your Account
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Downloads
429: CPGlang
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Photo Gallery
435: Member Screenshots
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Home
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Photo Gallery
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Member Screenshots
447: Downloads
448: Community Forums
449: Photo Gallery
450: Home
451: Member Screenshots
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Tell a Friend
457: Community Forums
458: Your Account
459: CPGlang
460: Photo Gallery
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Photo Gallery
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Statistics
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Photo Gallery
474: Home
475: Photo Gallery
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Photo Gallery
479: Home
480: LinkToUs
481: Community Forums
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: News
487: Downloads
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Photo Gallery
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Home
495: Community Forums
496: Home
497: Community Forums
498: Home
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Downloads
506: Home
507: Home
508: Community Forums
509: Community Forums
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Downloads
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Downloads
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Home
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Home
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Photo Gallery
527: Downloads
528: Home
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Photo Gallery
532: Home
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Your Account
542: Home
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Community Forums
547: Home
548: Community Forums
549: Photo Gallery
550: Photo Gallery
551: Home
552: Downloads
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Downloads
557: Community Forums
558: Photo Gallery
559: Photo Gallery
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: News Archive
563: Your Account
564: Community Forums
565: Photo Gallery
566: Community Forums
567: Member Screenshots
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: CPGlang
574: Community Forums
575: Photo Gallery
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Your Account
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Photo Gallery
582: Community Forums
583: Downloads
584: Community Forums
585: Photo Gallery
586: Photo Gallery
587: Photo Gallery
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Downloads
592: Community Forums
593: Community Forums
594: Downloads
595: Community Forums
596: CPGlang
597: Photo Gallery
598: Community Forums
599: Supporters
600: CPGlang
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Downloads
605: Home
606: Community Forums
607: Member Screenshots
608: Community Forums
609: Member Screenshots
610: Home
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Community Forums
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Community Forums
622: Community Forums
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Home
626: CPGlang
627: Photo Gallery
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Community Forums
631: News Archive
632: Community Forums
633: Community Forums
634: Photo Gallery
635: Home
636: Home
637: Home
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Home
641: Photo Gallery
642: Downloads
643: Community Forums
644: Photo Gallery
645: Community Forums
646: Community Forums
647: Photo Gallery
648: Community Forums
649: Community Forums
650: Photo Gallery
651: CPGlang
652: News Archive
653: Your Account
654: Downloads
655: Community Forums
656: Photo Gallery
657: Home
658: Home
659: Community Forums
660: Member Screenshots
661: Community Forums
662: Community Forums
663: Downloads
664: Community Forums
665: Community Forums
666: Home
667: Community Forums
668: Community Forums
669: Community Forums
670: Community Forums
671: Downloads
672: Community Forums
673: Community Forums
674: Photo Gallery
675: Community Forums
676: Community Forums
677: Photo Gallery
678: Photo Gallery
679: Community Forums
680: Community Forums
681: Community Forums
682: Photo Gallery
683: Community Forums
684: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
BenjaminLiottel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:41 am
Post subject: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?

Here is a summary of all the information I can glean from books I own and online:

"TG Tank (Tank Grote or Grotte) was a heavy tank of very advanced design, with low silhouette and high power, built by Russia in 1931. It incorporated an unusual, almost futuristic, design with turret rounded on top, a feature 15 years before its time. A very sleek, heavy design, it sported a 76.2 A-19 cannon in the lower turret, a 37mm PS-2 gun in the upper turret, aswell as three 7.62mm M-1910 machine guns in the lower turret, and two 7.62 DT machine guns in hull sides. It could run on roadwheels or tracks. The tank was jointly developed by the Red Army of the Soviet Union, and the German Army of the Weimar Republic of Germany. After completion and testing of the TG-1, all German engineers were repatriated from the USSR. Due to a manufacturing error the lower turret of the prototype was fixed. The engine designed for use in the TG was not completed in time, and an M-6 engine was substituted, although it did not fit properly in the engine compartment. Max armor was 50mm. Max speed 25mph."

Could this be true? Could the TG-1 have been a joint Russian and German design? Nothing like the TG-1 would appear in Russia for many years - it does seem to be a 'futuristic' design. Both Germany and Russia were eager to try and gain know-how about building tanks, so I could believe this story.

Can anyone back up this with facts?

Here are some pictures of the TG-1:
ww2photo.mimerswell.co.../06044.jpg
www.militaertechnik-de...tart23.gif
www.nemo.nu/ibisportal.../grote.jpg
www.onwar.com/tanks/us...ans/tg.gif

Furthermore, does anyone have any aditional pictures of this prototype? If this indeed was a partly German design, I'm sure all the Panzer Heads out there would love to learn all about it! It's a very interesting design. In the line-art of it, the front view of the turret is reminiscent of an Abrams!

---Liottel.

P.S. One of my tank books seems to think that "Grotte Tank" simply means "Heavy Tank" in Russian - but the battlefield.ru website says that the leader of the small group of German engineers sent to build the first prototype Heavy Tank for Russia (because they simply couldn't do it on their own) were led by 'Edward Grotte'. The lessons learned by the Russians during the building of the single TG-1 Heavy Tank would be put to use to build the T-35 Heavy Tank, and greatly increased Russias knowledge of armor building. Could the "Grotte Tank" have been named after the German engineer who helped build it ??

Keep in mind, virtually all information on early Russian armor is muddled with misinformation. But, why Russians would freely admit to their first heavy-tank being brought to life by Germans they hired, is beyond me.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:43 am
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?

Interesting. The dome type turrets appear in other designs of that era Look at some of the British designs like the 'Independent'.

I know we don't have many angles to look at but I have a little problem with thinking the lower gun position is in a rotating turret. The dimensions just don't look right. It may be that it is designed with a large overhang (but it doesn't seem to have enough clearance from the hull top) but the fore to aft dimension looks to great to be rotating turret. And then there would be the problems of having one turret rotating on topof the other and not on the same axis.

It is an interesting design and I can almost see the KV series growing out of it.

By the way there seems to be a problem with your 4th link (the one to onwar.com)

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Tanklord
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:20 pm
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russia

Could "Grotte" be "Grosse"? The lettering used in Old german makes "S" look like a "T" sometimes. Just my thoughts on the name.

_________________
The only thing to do when a son-of-a-bitch looks
cross-eyed at you is to beat the hell out of him right
then and there
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
BenjaminLiottel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:44 pm
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russia

Sorry folks, the fourth link is from a site that apparently doesn't like linking to its images... Here is the same image, (Copyright Maxim Kolomiets).

s1.simpload.com/070844...274208.gif

Yes, the extremities of the turret would not be where the turret ring was. Clearly it had some sort of modern 'turret overhang'.

I do not think the fact that the upper turret revolved on a different axis as the main would be much of an issue. For instance, the M3 tank had a secondary machine-gun turret on top of its primary 37mm gun turret - and it clearly rotated on a different axis. It would be basically impossible for the 37mm gun to be brought to bear on one target, while at the same time the turret cupola machine gunner brought his gun to bear on a different target.

Also, the later T-35 Heavy Tank was clearly inspired by the Independent tank, its turret was taller, and even had a sort of dome like top to some of the models. This tank however, had a squat primary turret - the secondary turret was domed, yes, but the primary had much more in common with far later tanks than the Independent.

---Liottel.
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?

I don't think there was much intent in the M3 Lee for the machinegun to be used for independent fire. If I remember correctly in some contemporary sources it was listed as an anti-aircraft gun. (another flawed concept) That was also the tank commanders position so he would tend to be occupied with directing the fighting of the 75mm and/or the 37mm gun.

I think recoil would be a problem with a gun as large as a 37mm mounted in a secondary turret off the centerline of rotation. Everytime the 37mm was fired when it wasn'tpointed down the centerline of the main turret it would put stress on the rotating gear of the main turret which would potentially affect the aim or operation of the main turret gun. It would also complicate gunlaying and target tracking for the 37mm. But all these are things that would be found out during trials and operational use. The late 20's and early 30's were a time of innovation in armored warfare

It would be interesting to find out details of the suspension. Did it use torsion bars, large coil springs like the Christie tanks, or something else. The potential for wheel or track operation is also interesting. That is a complexity that I don't remember seeing in any other German designs

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:07 am
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russia

Luckily I have done a lot of research on Edward Grote and previous messages on him can probably still be found in the old archives...

- BenjaminLiottel

Could this be true? Could the TG-1 have been a joint Russian and German design? Nothing like the TG-1 would appear in Russia for many years - it does seem to be a 'futuristic' design. Both Germany and Russia were eager to try and gain know-how about building tanks, so I could believe this story.


After visiting Germany in late 1929/early 1930 Members of the Soviet Mission invited german engineer Edward Grote to the USSR. After his arrival, Grote began work at the AVO-5 Design Office, within the Aviation Engine Department of the 'Bolshevik' Factory. He led a team that was engaged on designing on a heavily armored, medium-weight tank as an alternative to the maneuverable T-24 . In 1930, prototypes of the experimental, TG Tank (Tank Grote) aka T-22 were subjected to trials and found to have some faults. Despite rectifying the faults that were found during testing, it was decided that the TG Tank would not be placed in production. Further work on the TG Tank was suspended and the services of Edward Grote were no longer required and in August 1933, Grote was requested to leave the USSR.

He then went to France and worked at Renault on the experimental G1 R series of tanks. towit the G1 R [75mm] - French experimental model and the G1 R [47mm] - Original french concept with 47mm in turret and 75mm in hull.

On the declaration of war he moved to the USA and is rumoured to have been involved in the design of the Lee & Sherman tanks. His speciality seems to have been cast turrets and there is more than a passing resemblance between the Lee and the G1R 47mm version.

Incidentally the Renault G1 R holds the record for being the only tank ever to have been rejected by an army because it EXCEEDED the official requirements.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
BenjaminLiottel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:33 am
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?

Awesome information Jim!!

This was certainly one of the coolest tanks of its time. I mean, it had very good armor for the time (50mm max!), a good top speed for the time, and it had a 75mm gun AND a 37mm!

I wonder if the 75mm was a high-velocity gun? It had a long barrel, so I'm guessing it was a true heavy tank cannon, rather than some sort of howitzer. That would mean it could easily out-gun any tank in the world for literally years and years, until 75mm guns became commonplace in WWII!

Amazing design. Can you enlighten us on whether the bottom turret did indeed have traverse, or limited traverse, or was it fixed? I read that there was a manufacturing accident, and in the final product the bottom turret was fixed - but it was meant to be able to turn.

---Liottel.
Back to top
View user's profile
Rikard_Hufschmied
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russia

- BenjaminLiottel
Awesome information Jim!!

This was certainly one of the coolest tanks of its time. I mean, it had very good armor for the time (50mm max!), a good top speed for the time, and it had a 75mm gun AND a 37mm!

I wonder if the 75mm was a high-velocity gun? It had a long barrel, so I'm guessing it was a true heavy tank cannon, rather than some sort of howitzer. That would mean it could easily out-gun any tank in the world for literally years and years, until 75mm guns became commonplace in WWII!

Amazing design. Can you enlighten us on whether the bottom turret did indeed have traverse, or limited traverse, or was it fixed? I read that there was a manufacturing accident, and in the final product the bottom turret was fixed - but it was meant to be able to turn.

---Liottel.


Check the provided link, it should answer all your questions. I would have provided the link sooner but the Russian Battlefield site was down for a long , long time.

Tank Grotte (TG) at the Russian Battlefield

Be sure to check the rest of the site as well, it is truly excellent!

Cheers,
Rik

_________________
Frustra Nate Vive Devincere
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
BenjaminLiottel
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:08 pm
Post subject: Re: TG "Tank Grotte" Russian 1931 Heavy Tank - German+Russian ?

Fascinating stuff!

It still doesn't entirely put to rest the turret question though. Yes, by the time it was built the lower 'turret' could not move, only the top turret could rotat. But, was that how it was designed all along? Or, as I read in a different web page, was there a manufacturing problem and while trying to make the rotating lower turret, it was decided to make it fixed?

A gun that can only be aimed around ±10° in all directions seems to have quite limited tactical use, especially with how long this vehicle is. It would have to stop, and pivot on its tracks to try and sight in an enemy - yet the vehicle is so long, pivoting would be very hard. Vehicles like the StuG could pivot easily because they had a very short body. So I am inclined to believe the lower turret was originally meant to rotate, although obviously I seem to have no proof.

---Vil.
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum