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M48 Shillelagh prototype
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:34 pm
Post subject: M48 Shillelagh prototype

alright, i tracked down this vehicle again. last time i saw it, it was down at the arty ctr, DTW. looks like they have repainted it. it is now out in armada.
hey chris, if you are reading this, are you or anyone else you know, privy to the condition/whereabouts of other detroit monuments?

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:54 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

That is a seriously rare bird.
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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

so you see the feathers too! i thought i was just trippin'

very rare bird indeed. and yet again, i find another bee's nest down the muzzle of the barrel. the tc's cupola is missing, covered with sheet metal. i was able to lift this up about 6", only to find that the hatch had also been covered with plywood under the sheet metal.

at first i hadnt been sure that this was the same vehicle but i noticed that the 1st roadwheel is still in an elevated position.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:04 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

So rare its not even mentioned in Hunnicutt's Patton as far as I can find...

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:06 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Shawn, great find, any chance you could do a walk-around for us?

Neil
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SHAWN
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

yes, give me a second to post the pics. i took about 30 today so i will get to posting asap...
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Great, and if possible, you might want to consider using photobucket.com to post bigger pics - the M60A3 ones are awfully small...

Or just send them to me and I'll be happy to put them on photobucket & post them.

Neil
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jcneel
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:25 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

- Neil_Baumgardner
So rare its not even mentioned in Hunnicutt's Patton as far as I can find...

Neil


In Hunnicutt's Abrams book - where he is discussing the T95E8 - there are several photos of an M60 chassis that has one of these types of turrets installed (but with 20mm cannons mounted on the sides of the turret - indicated in the photo below where I have marked with arrows). It even has the same ladder like thing on the front of the hull. I don't see any photos of an M48 having a T95 turret installed as a test rig - but he does mention an M48 chassis being used as a Driver in Turret test rig - which was also part of the T95 program.

hth



cn
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JeffStringer
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:54 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

That's what makes this place so special. Discovering and discussing jewels like this!

What a great find!
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:36 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Right, sure, but there's no actual reference I can find to an M48 with a Shillelagh turret. In fact, it seems a little odd, since the M48 had already been replaced by the M60 right?

Then again, the Army had the bright idea to put an air defense system on the M48 after even the M60 was being replaced, so go figure...

Neil
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:43 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Is it possible this oddball experimental turret was dropped into an M48 hull just to make a "complete" vehicle for static display?
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jcneel
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

It's possible, but the ladder like steps seen on the front of this tank looks very much like the ones seen on the M60 chasses used as test rigs for other T95 experimental turrets. This leads me to believe that this whole tank is a test rig. But like Neil says - it is not shown or listed in the Hunnicutt's book - so I have nothing to back this up.


cn
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:52 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Hi Folks!

- jcneel

It's possible, but the ladder like steps seen on the front of this tank looks very much like the ones seen on the M60 chasses used as test rigs for other T95 experimental turrets. This leads me to believe that this whole tank is a test rig.


Remember back in 1974, the Army started thinking it didn't have enough tanks after reviewing the lessons learned from the 1973 shoot out.

Maybe this was a case of somthing needed tested and a 48 hull would do and was available while every 60 hull we had was needed for the big one in Europe.

Great find!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Vivman
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:16 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

Hi all,

Well this vehicle facinated me so I started doing a little research and I found a couple of other references. In Fred Crismon's "U.S. Military Tracked Vehicles" on page 121 he has a picture of what looks like an M48 or M48a1 hull mounting a Shillelagh in a similar but not identical turret to the one pictured above.

The second reference is in Crow and Icks "Encyclopedia of Tanks" on page 236. It identifies a vehicle as follows, " M48 with Shillelagh, squat cast turret, right centre cupola, rotatable hatch w/3 extendable periscopes, left rear side extendable range-finder, ventilator rear right top."

Granted it is not much but, it suggests that this vehicle was not just a bashed together "Tanken-stein" to be used as a tank monument.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: M48 Shillelagh prototype

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Folks!

- jcneel

It's possible, but the ladder like steps seen on the front of this tank looks very much like the ones seen on the M60 chasses used as test rigs for other T95 experimental turrets. This leads me to believe that this whole tank is a test rig.


Remember back in 1974, the Army started thinking it didn't have enough tanks after reviewing the lessons learned from the 1973 shoot out.

Maybe this was a case of somthing needed tested and a 48 hull would do and was available while every 60 hull we had was needed for the big one in Europe.

Great find!
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Not to mention partially depleting it's own strategic reserve of tanks after the IDF saw over 400 of theirs get toasted. Suddenly, M60's of any variant probably started to seem a lot more valuable. I betting though, that this M48/Shillelagh mule was cobbled together well before the Yom Kippur War.

I'd like to see Neil taken up on his offer to get higher res pics posted...like Jeff said, this "jewel" is too unique not to get documented well...while it still exists and can be accounted for.
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