±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 589
Total: 589
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Downloads
06: Photo Gallery
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Downloads
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Photo Gallery
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Home
24: Community Forums
25: Your Account
26: Photo Gallery
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Downloads
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Member Screenshots
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Community Forums
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Your Account
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Photo Gallery
86: Home
87: Downloads
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Downloads
93: Photo Gallery
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Home
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Community Forums
109: Your Account
110: Home
111: Your Account
112: Photo Gallery
113: Photo Gallery
114: Home
115: Photo Gallery
116: Home
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Home
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Your Account
127: Photo Gallery
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Photo Gallery
132: News
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Your Account
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: CPGlang
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Photo Gallery
146: Photo Gallery
147: Photo Gallery
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Photo Gallery
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: CPGlang
154: Home
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Member Screenshots
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Home
173: Downloads
174: Community Forums
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Photo Gallery
180: Community Forums
181: Photo Gallery
182: Home
183: Photo Gallery
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Home
187: Home
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Photo Gallery
193: Community Forums
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Photo Gallery
221: Downloads
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: Downloads
226: Photo Gallery
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Statistics
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Your Account
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Photo Gallery
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Member Screenshots
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Photo Gallery
252: Home
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Photo Gallery
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Photo Gallery
263: Photo Gallery
264: Community Forums
265: Downloads
266: Home
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Photo Gallery
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Home
280: Home
281: Home
282: Home
283: Community Forums
284: CPGlang
285: Home
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Photo Gallery
293: Photo Gallery
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Home
303: Photo Gallery
304: Photo Gallery
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Statistics
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Downloads
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Photo Gallery
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Photo Gallery
324: Photo Gallery
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: News Archive
331: Community Forums
332: Photo Gallery
333: Community Forums
334: Photo Gallery
335: Member Screenshots
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Photo Gallery
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: News
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Photo Gallery
359: Member Screenshots
360: Your Account
361: Photo Gallery
362: CPGlang
363: Community Forums
364: Your Account
365: Photo Gallery
366: Home
367: Home
368: Your Account
369: Photo Gallery
370: Photo Gallery
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Home
377: CPGlang
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Statistics
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Downloads
388: Community Forums
389: CPGlang
390: Community Forums
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Photo Gallery
394: Home
395: Photo Gallery
396: Photo Gallery
397: Downloads
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Photo Gallery
403: Home
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Photo Gallery
408: Home
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Community Forums
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Photo Gallery
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Photo Gallery
419: News Archive
420: Photo Gallery
421: Member Screenshots
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Photo Gallery
426: Home
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Home
430: Statistics
431: Photo Gallery
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Your Account
435: Community Forums
436: Member Screenshots
437: Photo Gallery
438: Community Forums
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Community Forums
447: Member Screenshots
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Downloads
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Photo Gallery
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Your Account
458: Photo Gallery
459: Photo Gallery
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: News Archive
466: Community Forums
467: Photo Gallery
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Photo Gallery
472: Community Forums
473: Photo Gallery
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Photo Gallery
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Photo Gallery
482: Community Forums
483: Downloads
484: Community Forums
485: Community Forums
486: Community Forums
487: Downloads
488: Your Account
489: Community Forums
490: Downloads
491: Photo Gallery
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Home
498: Photo Gallery
499: Community Forums
500: Home
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Photo Gallery
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Photo Gallery
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: CPGlang
516: Community Forums
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Home
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Photo Gallery
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: CPGlang
528: Home
529: Community Forums
530: News Archive
531: Photo Gallery
532: News
533: Community Forums
534: Photo Gallery
535: Community Forums
536: Photo Gallery
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Photo Gallery
543: CPGlang
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Photo Gallery
547: Photo Gallery
548: Your Account
549: Community Forums
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Community Forums
553: Downloads
554: Community Forums
555: Downloads
556: Home
557: Photo Gallery
558: Community Forums
559: Downloads
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Downloads
563: Home
564: Home
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Community Forums
568: Downloads
569: Photo Gallery
570: Community Forums
571: Downloads
572: Photo Gallery
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Your Account
579: Community Forums
580: Photo Gallery
581: Community Forums
582: Photo Gallery
583: Photo Gallery
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Photo Gallery
588: Community Forums
589: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

Dont ask me why there is a Warrior operating with the Paras, probably some detached firepower for them. I suppose it could be a CVR(T), its hard to tell from this grainy video (the 'Warrior' is seen at about the 1:50 mark):

news.bbc.co.uk/media/a...6x9_nb.ram



I think it's a Warrior.

Is the CVR(T) still in active service? None of my modern AFV books list it. I was only able to find photos and details in a 1976 issue of Jane's.

Interesting,
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

The Scimitar is:
www.army.mod.uk/equipm...av_scm.htm

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

- Neil_Baumgardner
In fact, has anyone deployed tanks into Afghanistan previously? I know Warriors have been deployed, but tanks?

Neil


OK, its not a tank, but the Netherlands deployed the PzH2000 at their bases in Uruzgan. They have the size of a tank.......

The ''generals'' asked for Leopards to deploy to Uruzgan but unfortunately the political leadership decided that it was too agressive. ''We'' were there to rebuild and helping the locals and not destroying it.

I think thats why they keep me in the Netherlands Wink
Back to top
View user's profile
Jason_Bobrowich
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

The British Brigade in Afghanistan is the 16th Air Assault Brigade. Very fast moving and has had one Squadron of the Household Cavalry Regiment for Recce support for the past 15 years.

I watched the video again several times and am convinced it is a Scimitar. Recognition features- low, sloped front hull, turret set back on the hull, hull stowage box extending from the hull rear.

The Scimitars in use are the Scimitar LEP(Life Extension Program). They included a whole bunch of improvements including a new thermal sight for the gunner.

I was lucky enough to command Scimitars in Bosnia as a Canadian Sgt. in 1994 during an exchange with the Light Dragoons. I was also an AFV recognition instructor while I was in the Army.

Not so say there aren't Warriors in Afghanistan, but not in that video. If anyone has any info on Warriors in Afghanistan I would like to hear and see it.
Back to top
View user's profile
Jason_Bobrowich
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

I forgot about the Dutch PZH 2000s. If I am correct they have only recently been deployed there over the last couple of months. I have seen a couple of images of a PZH 2000s in Afghanistan still in the NATO three colour cam and being used for a fire mission at FOB Martello near Kandahar. In one image there is so much desert dust on the vehicle it looks like the hull and turret sides are desert tan with the turret front, barrel, and road wheels still NATO cam.

An article I found stated there are only two PZH 2000s deployed so far. How many are slated?

Any links to images would be appreciated.
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

The Paras' battles in Sangin typify the problem that seems to be developing in Afghanistan. The NATO troops have been incredibly professional at the light infantry air-land battle. Exactly the way the doctrine was written, and the books were written.

Show up with well disciplined troops, excellent radios and supply lines, and adequate mobility. Battles are fought as meeting engagements of slogging Westerners bump into small enemy parties, maybe vectored in by comprehensive intelligence. Use Chinooks to get close, Blackhawks for CASEVAC and CAS for punch. But the Taliban seem more and more willing to stand and deliver, as the video says to the point of besieging firebases. When the defenders run out of ammo or supplies, what are their options?

The battles in Panjwayi and Zhari district look like three-fourths of a conventional war. Arty, engineers and combat infantry, but no tanks. My guess is someone in NDHQ came to that conclusion a lot earlier than I did.

The Paras look like they have .50s on their Land Rovers and 60mm mortars. They might even have 66mm M72s, but they don't look much heavier than light infantry. Not their fault, just their doctrine.
Back to top
View user's profile
Jason_Bobrowich
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 09, 2006
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:00 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

The Paras most likely have the LAW80...it replaced the Carl G and the M72 within the British Forces.

They are also most likely using the L2A1 (ILAW) Interim Light Anti-tank Weapon...it is the British designation for the Swedish made AT4.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:48 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

The Scimitar is:


Why didn't you say that in the first place! I had forgotten CVR(T) was a vehicle type name for the Scorpion later upgraded to the Scimitar recon tanks.

I went looking for CVR(T) in my AFV referencs and none of them had one. Once I saw the Scimitar photos in the link you provided, I was able to find it listed under the Scorpion tank.

No question on my part now, I agree that bad photo is a Scimitar. For a Warrior I was thinking that turret was a bit to far to the rear, but gave in thinking it was just part of a bad view of the vehicle.

No longer confuzed on this one. Smile
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

- Jason_Bobrowich
I forgot about the Dutch PZH 2000s. If I am correct they have only recently been deployed there over the last couple of months. I have seen a couple of images of a PZH 2000s in Afghanistan still in the NATO three colour cam and being used for a fire mission at FOB Martello near Kandahar. In one image there is so much desert dust on the vehicle it looks like the hull and turret sides are desert tan with the turret front, barrel, and road wheels still NATO cam.

An article I found stated there are only two PZH 2000s deployed so far. How many are slated?

Any links to images would be appreciated.


AFAIK there is one at Tarin Kowt and one at Darea Wood (spelling??) with one acting as reserve at one of these two bases. For what I have heard they have almost every day firing missions with satisfying results.

So far I didn't have seen any pictures of them.

Regards
Back to top
View user's profile
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

When - if ever - has the old Leopard I seen combat? I seem to recall them rolling into ex-Yugoslavia but I wouldn't call that warfighting so much as aggressive peacekeeping.

I heard rumors a couple decades ago a dead Russian crew was pulled out of a Leopard I destroyed during fighting in... um... Somalia? Chad? I believe rumor was that the Soviets had perloined a couple Leopard Is as the vehicles were being shipped around the world in cargo ships for trade shows. They wound up somewhere in Africa undergoing combat trials. At least that was the tale.
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

Mike:

Your African Leopard was probably one of the Italian licence built copies, and it had a Libyan connection. I'd seen the same story elsewhere.
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

- Maple_Leaf_Eh
Mike:

Your African Leopard was probably one of the Italian licence built copies, and it had a Libyan connection. I'd seen the same story elsewhere.


It was an OF-40 - one of a number sold to Libya.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
buglerbilly
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:37 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

The Paras look like they have .50s on their Land Rovers and 60mm mortars. They might even have 66mm M72s, but they don't look much heavier than light infantry. Not their fault, just their doctrine.


The Paras don't have 60mm Mortars, they have 51mm mortars mostly used for Illumination tasks. The 40mm under-barrel grenade launchers have taken over most of the HE-flinging tasks of the 51mm.

They are also most likely using the L2A1 (ILAW) Interim Light Anti-tank Weapon...it is the British designation for the Swedish made AT4.


MBT LAW is the basis for the new British and Swedish AT launchers, but the Brits also have another system being introduced based on German "Panzerfaust" technology for the anti-material (aka Bunkers and the like) task.

Both MBT LAW and this new system fire from Enclosed Spaces if needed, in other words have minimal signature and vastly reduced backblast.

Regards,

BUG
Back to top
View user's profile
L.Delsing
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 960

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

I hope this works and the photo will appear below....

www.landmacht.nl/binar...-66735.jpg

A short translation of a army news message;
First time use of the PzH2000 in A-stan in Kandahar were the Dutch infantry ''took over'' the Canadian base Martello. The PzH2000 is deployed to support Canadian (and other) troops during Operation Medusa in the Panjwayi region in Kandahar.

On request of the NATO commander south A-stan the NL deployed the two PzH2000s in support of the Canadian troops

The second PzH2000 is deployed in Kandahar and ready to do fire missions.

The guns are deployed to A-stan for the NL bases in Tarin Kowt and Deh Rawod.

For the security / fire support is a mortar unit at these two bases. The PzH2000s wil take over this job in the future.

Regards
Back to top
View user's profile
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:36 am
Post subject: Re: Canadians to deploy Leopards to Afghanistan

- L.Delsing
I hope this works and the photo will appear below....

www.landmacht.nl/binar...-66735.jpg

Regards


In the small world department, my sister's father in law gets the Dutch veteran's magazine and passes them to me. I can't read a word of Dutch, but every so often there are pictures or stories that get my attention. Now that I've realized Leslie knows what the background story is, I will feel more at ease with using some of that content. (And yes, Leslie I think I remember you explaining your geneology on the old AFV New forum.)
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum