±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 424
Total: 424
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Member Screenshots
03: Photo Gallery
04: Community Forums
05: Your Account
06: Your Account
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Photo Gallery
10: Downloads
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: News Archive
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Member Screenshots
21: Community Forums
22: Downloads
23: Photo Gallery
24: Downloads
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Community Forums
31: Photo Gallery
32: Your Account
33: Photo Gallery
34: Member Screenshots
35: CPGlang
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Downloads
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: CPGlang
44: Community Forums
45: News Archive
46: Community Forums
47: Home
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Photo Gallery
53: CPGlang
54: Home
55: Member Screenshots
56: Home
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Downloads
64: Home
65: Community Forums
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Your Account
69: Member Screenshots
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Home
74: Home
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Home
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Your Account
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Statistics
93: Community Forums
94: Photo Gallery
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: News Archive
110: Community Forums
111: Photo Gallery
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: News Archive
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Photo Gallery
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Photo Gallery
128: Home
129: News
130: Photo Gallery
131: Home
132: Home
133: Photo Gallery
134: Photo Gallery
135: CPGlang
136: Home
137: Home
138: Your Account
139: Community Forums
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Search
147: Member Screenshots
148: Community Forums
149: Home
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Photo Gallery
154: Community Forums
155: Home
156: Photo Gallery
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Home
168: Member Screenshots
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: CPGlang
172: Photo Gallery
173: Community Forums
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Photo Gallery
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Photo Gallery
191: Member Screenshots
192: Home
193: Community Forums
194: Downloads
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: Home
198: Member Screenshots
199: Photo Gallery
200: Member Screenshots
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Member Screenshots
204: CPGlang
205: Community Forums
206: Downloads
207: Community Forums
208: Photo Gallery
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Member Screenshots
212: CPGlang
213: Downloads
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Photo Gallery
217: Community Forums
218: Photo Gallery
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: CPGlang
222: Photo Gallery
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Community Forums
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Downloads
230: Photo Gallery
231: Community Forums
232: Home
233: Home
234: CPGlang
235: Community Forums
236: Member Screenshots
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Downloads
244: Photo Gallery
245: Member Screenshots
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Home
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Statistics
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Your Account
261: Photo Gallery
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Downloads
265: CPGlang
266: Home
267: Community Forums
268: Community Forums
269: Community Forums
270: Downloads
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Downloads
278: Community Forums
279: Photo Gallery
280: Photo Gallery
281: Home
282: Photo Gallery
283: Home
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Statistics
287: Photo Gallery
288: Photo Gallery
289: Community Forums
290: CPGlang
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Photo Gallery
297: Community Forums
298: Home
299: Community Forums
300: Downloads
301: Community Forums
302: Home
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Home
306: Home
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Home
317: Downloads
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Home
328: Home
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Home
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Home
343: Community Forums
344: Your Account
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Downloads
350: Community Forums
351: CPGlang
352: Photo Gallery
353: Photo Gallery
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: CPGlang
357: Community Forums
358: Member Screenshots
359: Community Forums
360: Photo Gallery
361: Photo Gallery
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Community Forums
366: Your Account
367: Home
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Community Forums
371: Home
372: Community Forums
373: Home
374: Community Forums
375: Your Account
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Member Screenshots
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Photo Gallery
382: Community Forums
383: Photo Gallery
384: Home
385: Your Account
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Downloads
393: Community Forums
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: Your Account
402: Your Account
403: Home
404: Home
405: Community Forums
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Community Forums
411: Downloads
412: Photo Gallery
413: Community Forums
414: Statistics
415: Photo Gallery
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Home
424: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Ordnance Museum move - recent articles & maps
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:51 am
Post subject: Ordnance Museum move - recent articles & maps

Stumbled upon this, but not sure how new it is - from the most recent Ordnance Museum Foundation meeting?

Neil

www.panzermuseum.com/t...useum.html

Tiger I Returning to Aberdeen

If you've been wondering about what's happened to the Tiger I tank that used to be at the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen, we have an update for you!

According to Dr. William Atwater, the museum's director, the museum's Tiger I - which has been in England undergoing restoration - was scheduled to return to the museum in November 2006, transported in a U.S. Air Force C-5 Galaxy aircraft.

Unfortunately, the aircraft that was scheduled to transport the Tiger was the one that crashed at Dover Air Force Base on 3 April (fortunately, however, all 17 crew members survived). The crash and the demands for air transport to support military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan completely upset the transport timetable. However, Dr. Atwater expected the Tiger to return to Aberdeen in 2007 on a date yet to be determined.

In a bit of related news, Dr. Atwater also said that the Ordnance Museum would be moving from Aberdeen to Ft. Lee, Virginia. Everything - including the 16" coastal artillery gun and the German Leopold railway gun - will be moved there to a new 175,000 square foot facility the Army is planning to build. The move is scheduled to take place in 2009.


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:39 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:09 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

I am pretty sure that did not come from an announcement at the December Foundation meeting. Most of it matches with what I have been told.

I don't know if the C-5 that crashed was actually the aircraft that was scheduled to bring the Tiger 'home' but I believe that the crash, along with the subsequent disruption of the scheduled flights (There was a short grounding of ALL C-5s until they determined if it was a fleetwide problem. That is pretty normal after a catistrophic accident) took any slack out of the flying schedule for the near future.

I will not speculate on future plans but rest assured when I find out from the folks at Aberdeen about any firm plans for the Tiger I will let folks here know.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:13 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

I guess using a ship never crossed their minds ....
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

Yes it did. I've heard one proposal was to use an ocean going barge but that the risk was deamed un acceptable. I believe that since it won't fit in a standard container that rules out most ships that haul cargo across the Atlantic.

There are other concerns I can't go into now (I'm not trying to be secretive but have been asked not to speculate, and want to stay in good graces so I can pass on solid information when it is available) but it has been thought out and at least to me the reasons make sense.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

sorry folks but we want to keep it here in england, we are short of tiger1s and have only two king tigers, you couldn't look after it properly first time so no second chance
Dennis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

- jtrowbridge5
sorry folks but we want to keep it here in england, we are short of tiger1s and have only two king tigers, you couldn't look after it properly first time so no second chance
Dennis


Not funny and I will only respond to say that the plans are to bring it back sooner rather than later.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:28 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

- jtrowbridge5
sorry folks but we want to keep it here in england, we are short of tiger1s and have only two king tigers, you couldn't look after it properly first time so no second chance
Dennis


You jest but I suspect some museums may have taken a similar attitude with regard to the items they were "lent" by the Ordnance Museum - although I have noted an apparent centralization of some of these loaners into Kevin Wheatcroft's hands, hopefully in anticipation of their return I can hope?...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
RichardIsner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

Hey,

Nobody wants a Tiger in this country more than me! But if Kevin Wheatcroft will restore it and run it in England, he can have it. I will pay good money to fly over and see it, especiially if it is protected from the weather!

Cheers,

Richard Isner
Back to top
View user's profile
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:59 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

my post was only a joke but as bob seems to be serious ,we still see lots of priceless German tanks stood in the open in one of the richest countries in the world just rusting away.so money really cant be the problem maybe a massive lack of enthusiasm
Dennis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:06 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

Reminds me of of a guy who owns a very rare car,
Since he owns it he can do what he wants with it (Leave it out doors and exposed to the elements or chop it up and put a modern engine in it with cool wheels that go round and round Mad ) even though the eventual demise will be a loss to everyone. I doubt very seriously APG would do anything but treat this tiger with the utmost care after her restoration.
The statement of Richard's "Paying good money to fly over...." kinda makes me think if people are willing to pay to fly that far to see this kind of rarity then why not give to APG/Patton or other museums to restore them here at home so the whole "Whose tank is it ?? " argument never arises. It would be nice if the museums would kind of establish an "Adopt a Tank" program so you can donate to a specific vehicle too. Maybe even get a tasteful sponsor that won't overshadow the piece it self. Just a thought. Too many rare vehicles are slowly being eaten away by rust and neglect.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

The US Army Ordnance Museum has suffered from a number of problems over the years, and currently faces some new ones. Historically, it was simply a collection for test, analysis & training - hence the cutaways. This frankly isnt much different from Bovington or Kubinka. The latter's collection was all outside at one point as well. And the Ordnance Museum is not alone in having lost invaluable items to scrapping - Bovington scrapped the E-100 hull in the 1950s as well. The big problem has been that it is the _Ordnance_ Museum - the museum of the Ordnance corps within the US Army. Historically, the Ordnance corps was what did the acquisition & testing of Army vehicles and artillery. However, in 1961 the Ordnance corps' responsibilities were passed to the new Army Materiel Command. This meant that the Ordnance branch lost a significant amount of power - and most importantly money!

As a result, you have the Patton Museum - very well supported by a combat branch (armor) with a large spacious museum. Instead of one large armor museum like in France, Britain or Canada - the US has two. One is relatively rich, one is relatively poor. We have the Smithsonian National Air & Space Museum, but no national armor museum. Actually, we dont even have a National museum for the Army (never mind armor), although it is scheduled to be established by 2011 or so... The Ordnance branch simply hasnt had the pull in terms of money, resources, and sponsors - Ordnance isnt a combat branch, so there arent too many Ordnance generals... Now, should the museum & foundation have probably found some way to scrap together the money over the last decade or two for a new museum, probably so... But the above explains why its been difficult to do so...

The current problem facing the museum is where it will be. The DoD BRAC calls for the Ordnance branch - and the Ordnance Museum - to move to Fort Lee. The date for the museum's move seems to float somewhere between 2009 and 2012. Funding for the move & new 175,000 sf facility is TBD. The Army could end up covering all of it, its too soon to say... As a result, its hard to start fundraising if you dont know what if any shortfall there will be...

BTW, flying the Tiger over on a C-5 is a different kind of money altogether I suspect. Its more an issue of an available aircraft than money... I suspect Ordnance Museum wouldnt pay for it, and the cost to the Air Force would be relatively incidental.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

- Joe_D
It would be nice if the museums would kind of establish an "Adopt a Tank" program so you can donate to a specific vehicle too. Maybe even get a tasteful sponsor that won't overshadow the piece it self. Just a thought. Too many rare vehicles are slowly being eaten away by rust and neglect.

Joe D


Actually Aberdeen has an 'Adopt a Tank' program. Several of the refurbs have been done with money donated under that program. For Example the M-10 was paid for with a donation from a person who's father fought in a Tank Destroyer Unit in WWII. He actually asked the unit veterans at a reunion whether he should do an M10 or an M18 (The unit used both) and the overwhelming choice was the M10.

My concern is that although some folks could afford to 'fly over there' to see a Tiger (or anything else) there is a whole segment of the population who can't. There are the Boy Scout troops and the High School WWII class that come to Aberdeen because it is 'available' Even if we moved it to Knox (or heaven forbid as one person suggested on this forum a year or so ago to Arizona where the climate is better for preservation) it would make it harder for some folks to see the collection. In some ways I think haveing multiple museums scattered around the country is better because it allows more people to see some of the actual historical vehicles.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

On a related note, I think these two maps are fairly interesting:





Note the large red box on the top right on the second picture. It doesnt appear in the previous graphics (ie would be built AFTER FY 11)... I think this is the new museum complex...

You can find this in the July 2006 (& subsequent) Fort Lee townhall briefing.
www.ima.lee.army.mil/s..._07_12.pdf

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

Here's a closeup.



As near as I can tell, this is the area I photographed last year:



Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

Is this the new Ordnance museum we're talking about or the new US Army museum-cum-theme park?
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum