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French and American FT-17
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:08 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Hmm... I wonder if the "two" are the ones at APG & Fort Meade. Werent "all" of the Mk VIIIs supposed to have been sold to Canada in 1939? Probably unlikely, but if that was truly the case, then the two US museum examples could have been acquired back at the end of the war...

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:49 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Given the shortage of shipping, especially early in the war why would scrap be sent to the UK? It seems it would be much more efficient to melt it down on this side of the ocean and send ingots, plate steel, etc to the UK to meet their needs. later in the war much older equipment was sent from North Africa & Europe back to the U.S. and Canada as scrap but many ships would have been coming back in ballast anyway.

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:10 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Well, one, they were probably scrapped at the end if not after the war.

Plus, remember, scrap was sent this way from the UK at least via reverse lend-lease - so its not unheard of to send scrap across the Atlantic during WWII... Thats how the Ordnance Museum got its Matilda II Wink

Neil
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:26 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

That's why the comment about the scrap coming back from North Africa and Europe (And I KNOW you've heard my Matilda story at Aberdeen Rolling Eyes )
but going the other way especially during the war doesn't make sense. maybe after the war, but by then there was so much scrape over there I can't see much reason to import any in from further than the continent.

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:31 pm
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Scrap was more welcome in the UK than iron ore which required far more processing, Imports of it tailed off once we began to win battles, capture the ground and started advancing as there was a closer (and free) supply recovered from the battlefield. American ships even carried it as ballast on their return to the USA.

Cool

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:41 pm
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

- the_shadock
- Doug_Kibbey
Also, I've got one of the one in the Patton Museum from this year and from 1971 out front (same vehicle) that I can post for you later. Just arrived in Europe and don't have access to my files here.


So there is something I don't understand. The Patton Museum has a FT-17 since 1971. This museum received 2 more FT-17 (more or less wrecks) from Afghanistan, and now, only 2 are exposed. What happened to the 3dr one?

I think that I'll do a survining FT-17 PDF file too.. Wink

P-O


Oh...one more thing (I'm late on this...been away on holiday)....the first FT-17 pictured at the beginning of this thread is definitely the one that used to be outside back in 1971...I proved that with my old pic from that time from the pattern of holes around the left side of the turret, posted somewhere way back in this forum after my trip in May.

Just in case you wanna' know...
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:14 pm
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

- JimWeb
Scrap was more welcome in the UK than iron ore which required far more processing, Imports of it tailed off once we began to win battles, capture the ground and started advancing as there was a closer (and free) supply recovered from the battlefield. American ships even carried it as ballast on their return to the USA.

Cool


I wasn't suggesting Iron Ore but processed Iron/steel. plate or ingots would not only take less space than scrap but would also save the transporting of the 'energy source' (Metalurgical grade coal, etc) needed to process thescrap into usable 'raw steel'. plate, ingots, or structural steel components would arrive in a much more usable state than scrap

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JimWeb
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:37 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Scrap is cheaper than processed iron/steel when your forced to pay cash for everything.

Cool

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Chris_C
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:45 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

- Neil_Baumgardner
Chris,
Sure, here's where I got the info. No idea where in Huntington it is stored
Thanks for the info. I'll see if the paper has any idea. Smile
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:48 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

I guess you could also try the Nitro city hall...

That tank's got a bit of a history, it used to be outside the railroad station in Alexandria, VA - but I think it was gone long before I moved into the area...

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:44 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Here is a picture of the Borden M1917...



Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:53 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Not sure why the picture isnt working (or the link for that matter), but you can find it at: ipmswinnipeg.1afm.com/...20AFVs.htm - scroll down to the Ontario, Borden section.

Thanks to lurker Alf Adams for pointing this site out to me, I am working to incorporate the info to my Canada AFV Register file...

Neil
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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:22 am
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Here are a couple views of the Borden tank, not great pics but the lighting inside was very bad

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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:24 pm
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

Here's a photo I guess most have seen but maybe not.......captioned "Six Ton Tank (1917) About 140 M1917 light tanks were supplied by the USA in 1940 for training purposes" to Canada

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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: French and American FT-17

I wonder if "Mister Worthington" is in that picture.

Neil
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