±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 592
Total: 592
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Photo Gallery
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Photo Gallery
13: Photo Gallery
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Downloads
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Downloads
23: Photo Gallery
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Downloads
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: Home
32: Downloads
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Downloads
40: Community Forums
41: Your Account
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Community Forums
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Your Account
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Community Forums
59: Your Account
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Downloads
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: CPGlang
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Your Account
74: Community Forums
75: Photo Gallery
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Member Screenshots
80: Your Account
81: Community Forums
82: Photo Gallery
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Member Screenshots
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Downloads
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Photo Gallery
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: CPGlang
109: Community Forums
110: Downloads
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Downloads
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Photo Gallery
120: Downloads
121: Downloads
122: Community Forums
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: CPGlang
126: Photo Gallery
127: Photo Gallery
128: Community Forums
129: Downloads
130: Downloads
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Your Account
144: Photo Gallery
145: Downloads
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Downloads
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: CPGlang
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Your Account
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Photo Gallery
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Downloads
181: Community Forums
182: News
183: Community Forums
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Downloads
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Photo Gallery
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Member Screenshots
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Member Screenshots
217: Photo Gallery
218: Statistics
219: Photo Gallery
220: Photo Gallery
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Downloads
224: Community Forums
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Home
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Photo Gallery
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Downloads
238: Photo Gallery
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Photo Gallery
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Home
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Downloads
250: Community Forums
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Statistics
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Downloads
259: Community Forums
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Downloads
265: Photo Gallery
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Downloads
269: Photo Gallery
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Photo Gallery
273: Downloads
274: Community Forums
275: Photo Gallery
276: Your Account
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Photo Gallery
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Photo Gallery
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: LinkToUs
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Photo Gallery
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Photo Gallery
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Community Forums
303: Photo Gallery
304: Photo Gallery
305: Home
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Member Screenshots
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Photo Gallery
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Downloads
320: Home
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Community Forums
324: Home
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Community Forums
333: News
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Member Screenshots
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Downloads
349: Home
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: News
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Photo Gallery
364: Community Forums
365: Downloads
366: Community Forums
367: Downloads
368: Photo Gallery
369: Community Forums
370: Photo Gallery
371: Photo Gallery
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Your Account
376: Community Forums
377: Downloads
378: Home
379: Home
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Your Account
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: CPGlang
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Downloads
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Photo Gallery
396: Photo Gallery
397: Photo Gallery
398: Community Forums
399: Community Forums
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Home
404: Community Forums
405: Community Forums
406: Downloads
407: Downloads
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Community Forums
414: Community Forums
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: CPGlang
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: CPGlang
425: Community Forums
426: Photo Gallery
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Photo Gallery
431: Downloads
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Your Account
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: News
443: Community Forums
444: Community Forums
445: Home
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Home
450: Community Forums
451: Home
452: Home
453: Community Forums
454: Home
455: Downloads
456: Photo Gallery
457: Photo Gallery
458: Community Forums
459: Downloads
460: Community Forums
461: Downloads
462: News Archive
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Photo Gallery
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Member Screenshots
480: Photo Gallery
481: Photo Gallery
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Community Forums
485: Downloads
486: Downloads
487: Photo Gallery
488: Photo Gallery
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: News
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Downloads
498: Community Forums
499: Community Forums
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Community Forums
506: Community Forums
507: Photo Gallery
508: Community Forums
509: Home
510: Photo Gallery
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Community Forums
515: Photo Gallery
516: Community Forums
517: Downloads
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Home
525: Home
526: Community Forums
527: Photo Gallery
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Photo Gallery
532: Community Forums
533: Member Screenshots
534: Photo Gallery
535: Photo Gallery
536: Photo Gallery
537: Community Forums
538: Community Forums
539: Community Forums
540: Downloads
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Community Forums
545: Community Forums
546: Home
547: Home
548: Home
549: Community Forums
550: Photo Gallery
551: Community Forums
552: Your Account
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Photo Gallery
559: Community Forums
560: Photo Gallery
561: Community Forums
562: Photo Gallery
563: Photo Gallery
564: Community Forums
565: Home
566: Photo Gallery
567: Your Account
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: Photo Gallery
571: Member Screenshots
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Downloads
575: Photo Gallery
576: Downloads
577: Photo Gallery
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Community Forums
581: Photo Gallery
582: Community Forums
583: Photo Gallery
584: Community Forums
585: Home
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Downloads
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Photo Gallery
592: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Roebling NJ M60
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:42 am
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

Okay, I'll admit I havent followed this thread all that well - its a little confusing! So is there a consensus? Do I need to remove or add a listing?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:05 am
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

Neil

In the Roebling, NJ entry change the serial number from 431 to 4074A. RN stays JJ0198

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:04 am
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

4074A is the Anniston rebuild SN. Do we know what the original SN is?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

Hadn't really been paying much attention to this thread until now. But here is part of the problem in id'ing the locations involved. Burlington
City is a distinct seperate municipality surrounded by Burlington Township, a different municipality. To compound the problem both are part of Burlington County( the largest NJ county), which includes among many other municipalties Florence, Wrightstown, Pemberton, Roebling, and Fort Dix. So if part of the location is given as Burlington, NJ without furhter clarification It could mean City, Township, or County . Hope this clarifies the issue some even though it doesn't give a concrete location for the tanks involved.

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:53 pm
Post subject: Please look Neil Re: Roebling NJ M60

Okay maybe we can get this worked out,
This M-60


is located in Burlington Township at the municipal complex and park about 60 yards from Rt. 660 AKA Old York Road.

Bob's M-60

is located in Burlington City just off of a street called Veteran's Drive right near the Burlington City, NJ - Bristol, Pa bridge

hope this is of some help

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

Thanks Jeff,
That explains it nicely, Now I can straighten out my records,

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60,

I was able to run up to Burlington today and picked up this info

Regarding the M60 in Burlington City There are too many layers of paint on it to read any numbers. I was surprised to see this on the left side of the turret
It's the only visible identifiying mark and it has 4 lifting lugs on each side of the hull

Regarding the M60 in Burlington Township The serial number has been completely ground off the front lug. The RN is JJ04XH . Left side of the turret has either U304 or U3U4 but it looks more like it is the first one with a damaged #0 . The rear deck number is 2654 beneath a series of numbers so heavily X stamped that they are unreadable. 4 lifting lugs on each hull side. Plaque identifies it as being built at Detroit Tank Arsenal

Jeff Lewis Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

Please note that the above photo is from a grizzly not that particular M60 but it is the same caster's marking

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:04 am
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

Jeff,
Thanks for the info, Where did you get the Registration Number from, the left front hull below the head lamp or was it on the left rear hull below the rear deck ?? I'm asking because all A3 examples I've seen with the tow lug ground were Mainz rebuilds, They would also weld a little plate similar to what you see on M1 skirts on the rear deck with the serial number and weld below it on the hull a plate with the registration number. Serial number 2654 doesn't make sense unless the deck was swapped at one time (happens quite a bit). Also, was the plaque saying Detroit Tank Arsenal the Chrysler Manufacture plate affixed on the rear above the tow pintle??

Curious,
Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
blair
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

Whats the story with the turret machine gun ? Why was it discontinued as a design element?

Would a variant of that be helpful on the M1s deployed in urban situations today?
Back to top
View user's profile
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

Hi Blair,
If your talking about the cupola for the commander (M19 w/ M85 .50 cal MG), It had some serious disadvantages. What I hated the most about it was it was designed as an anti-aircraft/ ground weapon, so all the vision blocks were angled and very small, and there was none looking forward. Made it a real pain in the a__ to TC when buttoned up. I would traverse it over to the right and try to look out the side block. The sights were pretty good compared to the M1's, You had a daylight channel with a diopter ring to focus along with a night sight, early ones IR, late were Passive, the IR sucked but the passive was pretty good, problem was it would wash out when firing so you fired short bursts. Another good thing was if you lost all power you could still opereate the night sight with a battery backup pack. Elevation and traverse was manual but was very well laid out, Right hand had a crank to traverse, left hand had a crank for elevation and a firing button. The weapon had an electric solenoid built into the back plate. It also had a high elevation angle. A lot of people disliked the M85 either for it's complexity or reliability (Doug is on that list I believe), I myself never had any issues with it (I loved it) but my experience was during the '80's so they probably worked out most of the bugs by then. A nice advantage was the ability to reload from inside the turret. I personally know some guys that wished they had that capability during the thunder run into Baghdad. As far as mounting it on another vehicle, unless it's a tank it's way too heavy, about 2300 pounds of cast armored steel. Though it's better than anything we have on the M1 right now. BTW, The sight housing it used is still around though. The M1117 uses the same set up with an updated passive sight.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

- Joe_D
Hi Blair,
A lot of people disliked the M85 either for it's complexity or reliability (Doug is on that list I believe), I myself never had any issues with it (I loved it) but my experience was during the '80's so they probably worked out most of the bugs by then.
Joe D


Yep, I am. Laughing Well, when all was working well (not often) it was a hoot in the high ROF mode we non-PC´ly referred to as "Chinese overdrive"...that is to say, it ripped. But reliability was poor in those days (early ´70´s) and maybe 1 out of 4 guns would fit that description...and only for a little while. Too fussy. And access was poor in the M60A1 and M60A2 cupolas....can´t say about A3, that was after mah´time and I don´t know what might have been done to improve things. Not a fan of those cupola-mounted .50´s anyway....limited ammo supply, poor access, bad visibility...but protection was good. Then again, we weren´t faced with MOUT. Things change.... Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

What's wrong? It has an M-2 Cal .50 MG barrel instead of an M-85 Smile


_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

Hi Joe

The RN was from just under the headlights on left front hull ( tank driver's left hand). The lug was a clean grind and it didn't look recent. no sign of any plates or other id on the rear. The 2654 appears twice, on the seperate piece above the plate and again under the x'd out numbers sort of like so

2654
____________ this line represents the seam between the parts

XXXXXXX not necesarrily the correct # of X's
2654

The plate saying Detroit Tank arsenal was the placard on a post for the tourists to read not on the vehicle itself

HTH

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:38 am
Post subject: Re: Roebling NJ M60

Thanks Jeff,
This one's got me a little confused in a way, Your description of the rear numbers makes it a rebuild and the way it's marked with the SN on the deck and hull is how Anniston stamped them. It's not the original A1 number because it's too low for a 4 lug hull. That's the A3 number it was assigned but I would have expected an "A" stamped to the right of 2654. The number being ground off the front tow lug usually indicated a Mainz rebuild but they always stamped the registration number on a small plate that was welded to the rear hull position. The deck was the only external place you could find the serial number and those ended with an "M". This is just a guess but I believe the reason why Mainz marked their tanks that way was because they didn't have the capability to stamp new numbers into the armored steel (Records I found show they only made 458). Anniston did produce a number of A3's without an "A" in the serial number, but those were produced near the end and had retained their original A1 numbers. 6903 in Boscobel WI and 8111 in Sikeston MO are like that. Maybe you found an oddity here.

Joe
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 3
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum