±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 529
Total: 529
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Photo Gallery
03: Member Screenshots
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Home
08: Home
09: Home
10: Photo Gallery
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Photo Gallery
22: Downloads
23: Home
24: Downloads
25: News Archive
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Your Account
40: CPGlang
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Community Forums
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Photo Gallery
52: Member Screenshots
53: Downloads
54: Member Screenshots
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: Photo Gallery
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Member Screenshots
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Member Screenshots
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Downloads
76: Community Forums
77: Community Forums
78: CPGlang
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Photo Gallery
82: Photo Gallery
83: Photo Gallery
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Photo Gallery
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Your Account
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Your Account
100: Photo Gallery
101: Downloads
102: Community Forums
103: Community Forums
104: Photo Gallery
105: Community Forums
106: Downloads
107: Community Forums
108: Home
109: Photo Gallery
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Home
115: Home
116: Community Forums
117: Photo Gallery
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Statistics
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Your Account
129: Downloads
130: Community Forums
131: Downloads
132: Statistics
133: News
134: Photo Gallery
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Photo Gallery
139: Member Screenshots
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Photo Gallery
148: Your Account
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Photo Gallery
152: Member Screenshots
153: Photo Gallery
154: Photo Gallery
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Member Screenshots
173: Home
174: Community Forums
175: Photo Gallery
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Community Forums
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Member Screenshots
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Downloads
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Your Account
195: News
196: Photo Gallery
197: Photo Gallery
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Photo Gallery
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Photo Gallery
215: Member Screenshots
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Photo Gallery
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Photo Gallery
228: Photo Gallery
229: Community Forums
230: CPGlang
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Photo Gallery
234: Photo Gallery
235: Downloads
236: Photo Gallery
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Downloads
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Photo Gallery
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Photo Gallery
255: Community Forums
256: Community Forums
257: Photo Gallery
258: Downloads
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Downloads
262: Photo Gallery
263: Photo Gallery
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Your Account
268: Community Forums
269: Home
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Community Forums
274: Photo Gallery
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Downloads
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Photo Gallery
291: Community Forums
292: Community Forums
293: Home
294: Community Forums
295: Community Forums
296: Member Screenshots
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Community Forums
302: Home
303: Community Forums
304: Member Screenshots
305: Home
306: News
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Photo Gallery
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Member Screenshots
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Community Forums
319: CPGlang
320: Statistics
321: News Archive
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Member Screenshots
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Photo Gallery
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Photo Gallery
333: Photo Gallery
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Your Account
342: Community Forums
343: Photo Gallery
344: CPGlang
345: Community Forums
346: Downloads
347: Community Forums
348: Community Forums
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Downloads
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Community Forums
368: Community Forums
369: Your Account
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Photo Gallery
373: Downloads
374: Community Forums
375: Community Forums
376: Tell a Friend
377: Community Forums
378: Photo Gallery
379: Community Forums
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Your Account
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: CPGlang
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Home
396: Community Forums
397: Home
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Community Forums
407: Member Screenshots
408: Community Forums
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Photo Gallery
413: Home
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: Photo Gallery
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Statistics
423: Home
424: Your Account
425: Community Forums
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Your Account
433: Community Forums
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Photo Gallery
439: Photo Gallery
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Community Forums
443: Community Forums
444: Photo Gallery
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Home
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Photo Gallery
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Photo Gallery
465: Community Forums
466: CPGlang
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Photo Gallery
473: Your Account
474: Photo Gallery
475: Statistics
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Downloads
479: Downloads
480: Community Forums
481: Community Forums
482: Your Account
483: Photo Gallery
484: Photo Gallery
485: Downloads
486: Community Forums
487: Home
488: Community Forums
489: Community Forums
490: Community Forums
491: Community Forums
492: Photo Gallery
493: Photo Gallery
494: Community Forums
495: Photo Gallery
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: CPGlang
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Statistics
505: Downloads
506: Statistics
507: CPGlang
508: Photo Gallery
509: Photo Gallery
510: Home
511: Photo Gallery
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Your Account
515: Photo Gallery
516: Community Forums
517: Downloads
518: Downloads
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Community Forums
522: Home
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Photo Gallery
527: Downloads
528: Home
529: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Yeah, time is usually an issue. I had to make it to a meeting - Fort Jackson (on Friday) was just a brief stop.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Jim! Hi Folks!

- JimWeb

I always have great difficulty telling the difference between the M46 & M46A1.....
Cool


You have to get inside the engine or the driver's compartments to be able to tell the differance AFAIK.

The M46 (New) {as it was first called} was equiped with the powerpack and control systems used in the M47. The M46 (New) was later renamed M46A1 to avoid confusion between the vehicles.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

Referance: "The M26 Pershing and Variants, T23E3/M26-M26A1-M45-M46/M46A1, page 4 and 6 by Troy D. Thiel, Schiffer Military History
M46 engine: AV-1790-5A V12 mo-gas
M46A1 engine: AV-1790-5B V12 mo-gas
M46 transmission: cross-drive cd-850-3
M46A1 trans: cross-drive cd-850-4

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Tue May 22, 2007 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46,

- Neil_Baumgardner




Hmm this sort of reminds me - JED now has 29 identified variants of the M114 listed... This is on the new server as the old one is not currently being updated. New server should be on-line, probably, this weekend - 136Gb capacity....

BTW if you want to help check out the new server for errors and cop a free look then drop me an email.

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46,

- Roy_A_Lingle

The M46 (New) {as it was first called} was equiped with the powerpack and control systems used in the M47. The M46 (New) was later renamed M46A1 to aviod confusion between the vehicles.


Roy Do you know if its correct that the M46s were all farmed off to various allies and replaced by A1s in the US Army when they started to come off the production line? Or is this just an old soldiers (wives) tale?

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46,

Hi Jim! Hi Folks!

- JimWeb

Roy Do you know if its correct that the M46s were all farmed off to various allies and replaced by A1s in the US Army when they started to come off the production line? Or is this just an old soldiers (wives) tale?
Cool


I have no idea (or informantion on that). But based on my military career, my guess would be that older versions went first, (as in M46) followed by newer version (as in M46A1) when replaced by even newer models (as in M47) which in turn was replaced/passed on to others when the M48 started going into service. That's a wives tale that has some bases to it, even without facts to support it.

Until I read a comment that the M26/M46 tanks served with other NATO countries, I was not aware that anyone other than the US Army and USMC used those two vehicles. I have never seen a picture of either with markings from any of the other NATO countries that I can remember.

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

How large were the M46 vice M46A1 production runs? The Northlake IL example is SN 248; the one at Fort Knox is SN 368; and finally the one at Fort Jackson is SN 1169... I suspect the first two at least are vanilla M46s?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 3:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46,

- Roy_A_Lingle

I have no idea (or informantion on that). But based on my military career, my guess would be that older versions went first, (as in M46) followed by newer version (as in M46A1) when replaced by even newer models (as in M47) which in turn was replaced/passed on to others when the M48 started going into service. That's a wives tale that has some bases to it, even without facts to support it.


So using a bit of logic we can assume that any images taken after a certain date would be of M46A1 rather than M6...

The trouble is (of course) - what date?

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46,

There's at least one other M46, at Cantigny IL.

To think, I've climbed on half of them. . .

KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:58 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Kurt, thanks for the info. I was aware of the following in Wheaton / Catigny, IL, but not an M46:

M26 Pershing
M47 Patton RN 12J866
M48 Patton SN 2650
T26E4 Super Pershing Only surviving T26E4?; RN301281432

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:54 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Neil Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

How large were the M46 vice M46A1 production runs?
Neil


Production of M46s?

It is my understanding that there was NO production of M46s.
The M46 was just a M26 which had the rear half of the hull cut off and replaced with a modified rear hull and a new powerpack.

As to the question of when the M46A1 upgrade started, my guess would be that the developement of the M47 might provide some clues.

When did the the M47 start development?
When was it standardized?
At what date, did it have the same powerpack the M46A1 received?
If not, when did it start receiving that powerpack?
Sense the M46 was a modification of the M26 hull. M46 (New) modifications may have started shortly after the time the M47, with the same powerpack, started production and the remainder of any M26s still in service were converted to M46s.

Even if a date can be nailed down, there is no way to be sure a photo dated after said date, shows a M46A1. I would say it's a case of call all of them M46s unless someone can get inside to check the driver's controls or inspect the powerpack and confirm the model numbers on the engine and transmission.

Base on what LITTLE I know about the M46 program, that is my intell estimate on when to call the first Patton tank a M46A0 or a M46A1.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:55 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

If the M46/M46A1s were all rebuild of M26s were they assigned new serial numbers or are the serial numbers their original M26 numbers?

If they were not assigned new numbers than trying to find a 'break point' where they changed may be futile since they could have been selected for rebuild without regard to serial number

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:09 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Bill! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

If the M46/M46A1s were all rebuild of M26s were they assigned new serial numbers or are the serial numbers their original M26 numbers?

If they were not assigned new numbers than trying to find a 'break point' where they changed may be futile since they could have been selected for rebuild without regard to serial number


Good point Bob. With that in mind, we need to add in the M45-105mm How's hulls which were also convered to M46 90mm main gun tanks.

The problem just got a little bigger.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:15 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

I'll take a look at Hunnicutt's Patton tonight. He usually refers to the SNs of the pilot vehicles - if they are low numbers I think we can assume they restarted the numbering. It should also be able to tell me how many M46s were remanufactured vs new build M46A1s - which should give something of a starting point for telling A0s from A1s by the SN (in theory).

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:15 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Another thought

If M46A1s were 'new build' was it just a case of at some point inserting the new powerpacks into the existing M26 production chain? I'm sure the production chain was running at a slow pace at that point (like all the new production between V-J day and Korea) so it may have been a case that M46A1 numbers picked up with the number after the last chassis that got the older power pack.

Has it been established that M46A1s were new builds? From the thread so far I thought it was just the model powerpack they got that made the difference. Were the powerpacks different enough that they would not have been interchanged in the field?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:28 am
Post subject: Re: Fort Jackson SC Armor - Flamethrower Sherman, M41, M46, M5..

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart
Another thought

If M46A1s were 'new build' was it just a case of at some point inserting the new powerpacks into the existing M26 production chain? I'm sure the production chain was running at a slow pace at that point (like all the new production between V-J day and Korea) so it may have been a case that M46A1 numbers picked up with the number after the last chassis that got the older power pack.

Has it been established that M46A1s were new builds? From the thread so far I thought it was just the model powerpack they got that made the difference. Were the powerpacks different enough that they would not have been interchanged in the field?


It is my understanding that there were NEVER any new built M46 or M46A1 hulls. All were modifications of older M26 and M45 hulls.

The A1 upgrade also included changes with the driver's controls.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 2 of 4
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum