±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 637
Total: 637
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Your Account
02: Your Account
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Photo Gallery
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Photo Gallery
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Member Screenshots
12: Home
13: Downloads
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Photo Gallery
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: Member Screenshots
21: Home
22: Member Screenshots
23: Community Forums
24: News Archive
25: Photo Gallery
26: Community Forums
27: CPGlang
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Photo Gallery
33: Community Forums
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Home
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Your Account
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Community Forums
55: Photo Gallery
56: Community Forums
57: Member Screenshots
58: Community Forums
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Member Screenshots
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Photo Gallery
69: Community Forums
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Photo Gallery
73: Statistics
74: Community Forums
75: Photo Gallery
76: Member Screenshots
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: CPGlang
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: CPGlang
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Downloads
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Photo Gallery
100: Photo Gallery
101: Home
102: News Archive
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: CPGlang
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Downloads
109: Member Screenshots
110: Home
111: Photo Gallery
112: Photo Gallery
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Home
119: News
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Downloads
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Home
139: Photo Gallery
140: Photo Gallery
141: Community Forums
142: Photo Gallery
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Community Forums
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Photo Gallery
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Downloads
163: Photo Gallery
164: Home
165: Downloads
166: Photo Gallery
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Photo Gallery
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Community Forums
173: Community Forums
174: Downloads
175: Community Forums
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Community Forums
184: Community Forums
185: CPGlang
186: Downloads
187: Your Account
188: Community Forums
189: Downloads
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Downloads
196: Community Forums
197: Community Forums
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Photo Gallery
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Member Screenshots
208: Community Forums
209: Community Forums
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Downloads
222: Photo Gallery
223: Community Forums
224: Photo Gallery
225: Community Forums
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Photo Gallery
232: Community Forums
233: Downloads
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Downloads
237: Photo Gallery
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Home
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Photo Gallery
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Photo Gallery
253: Photo Gallery
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Your Account
257: Photo Gallery
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Community Forums
265: Your Account
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: Downloads
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Downloads
274: Community Forums
275: Downloads
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Photo Gallery
279: Community Forums
280: Photo Gallery
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Photo Gallery
285: News
286: Community Forums
287: CPGlang
288: Photo Gallery
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Photo Gallery
292: Community Forums
293: Community Forums
294: Member Screenshots
295: Community Forums
296: Home
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Community Forums
300: Community Forums
301: Home
302: Photo Gallery
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Downloads
306: Community Forums
307: Photo Gallery
308: Community Forums
309: Community Forums
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Home
317: Community Forums
318: Downloads
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Home
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Community Forums
327: Photo Gallery
328: Downloads
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Photo Gallery
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Statistics
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Your Account
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Photo Gallery
347: Photo Gallery
348: Member Screenshots
349: Photo Gallery
350: Community Forums
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: Community Forums
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Home
359: Home
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Photo Gallery
363: Home
364: Downloads
365: CPGlang
366: Home
367: Community Forums
368: Downloads
369: Member Screenshots
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Photo Gallery
374: Community Forums
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Community Forums
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Photo Gallery
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Community Forums
391: Home
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: Your Account
396: Home
397: Community Forums
398: Community Forums
399: Photo Gallery
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Community Forums
406: Photo Gallery
407: Photo Gallery
408: Downloads
409: Downloads
410: Photo Gallery
411: Downloads
412: Community Forums
413: Member Screenshots
414: CPGlang
415: Home
416: Community Forums
417: Downloads
418: Community Forums
419: Photo Gallery
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Community Forums
424: News
425: Statistics
426: Community Forums
427: Community Forums
428: Community Forums
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Community Forums
432: Community Forums
433: Community Forums
434: Photo Gallery
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Member Screenshots
439: Member Screenshots
440: Home
441: Home
442: Photo Gallery
443: Photo Gallery
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Photo Gallery
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Community Forums
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Community Forums
462: Community Forums
463: Community Forums
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Community Forums
470: Community Forums
471: Community Forums
472: Community Forums
473: Home
474: Community Forums
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Photo Gallery
478: CPGlang
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Member Screenshots
482: Community Forums
483: Downloads
484: Community Forums
485: Downloads
486: Community Forums
487: Community Forums
488: Community Forums
489: Downloads
490: Community Forums
491: Downloads
492: Community Forums
493: Community Forums
494: Community Forums
495: Photo Gallery
496: Community Forums
497: Home
498: Home
499: Home
500: Community Forums
501: Community Forums
502: Community Forums
503: Community Forums
504: Community Forums
505: Photo Gallery
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Photo Gallery
510: Home
511: Community Forums
512: CPGlang
513: Photo Gallery
514: Community Forums
515: Community Forums
516: Photo Gallery
517: Community Forums
518: Community Forums
519: Community Forums
520: Community Forums
521: Member Screenshots
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Photo Gallery
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Community Forums
529: Community Forums
530: Community Forums
531: Photo Gallery
532: Community Forums
533: Community Forums
534: Community Forums
535: Community Forums
536: Photo Gallery
537: Community Forums
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Photo Gallery
541: Community Forums
542: Community Forums
543: Community Forums
544: Home
545: Downloads
546: Community Forums
547: CPGlang
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Home
551: Community Forums
552: Home
553: Downloads
554: Downloads
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Member Screenshots
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Photo Gallery
566: Photo Gallery
567: Photo Gallery
568: Community Forums
569: Community Forums
570: CPGlang
571: Community Forums
572: Community Forums
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Community Forums
576: Community Forums
577: Photo Gallery
578: Community Forums
579: Community Forums
580: Home
581: Community Forums
582: Photo Gallery
583: Community Forums
584: Community Forums
585: Community Forums
586: Community Forums
587: Community Forums
588: Photo Gallery
589: Community Forums
590: Photo Gallery
591: Community Forums
592: Photo Gallery
593: Community Forums
594: Community Forums
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Photo Gallery
599: Photo Gallery
600: Community Forums
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Community Forums
604: Community Forums
605: Community Forums
606: Home
607: Community Forums
608: Photo Gallery
609: Community Forums
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Community Forums
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Community Forums
616: Photo Gallery
617: Community Forums
618: Photo Gallery
619: Your Account
620: Community Forums
621: Home
622: Home
623: Community Forums
624: Community Forums
625: Home
626: Community Forums
627: Home
628: Community Forums
629: Community Forums
630: Photo Gallery
631: Community Forums
632: Community Forums
633: Downloads
634: Home
635: Community Forums
636: CPGlang
637: Home

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Camp Mabry running M4A3...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:05 am
Post subject: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

This M4A3 was used at the WWII reincatment today. It's serial number from the rear tow lugs was 7884, which I intend to send to Joe Demarco to see what he can find out about it and I'll post it here. However what the driver was able to tell me was that it was sent to Israel where the spare road-wheel mounts were added to the side towards the rear. Also the engine is now a Cummins and there is no longer a data plate in the drivers area. During the show it must have fired about 6-8 rounds with flame shooting out of the barrel. The kids got a kick out of seeing a Sherman actually run and move. I'll post more as I know more about this vehicle.

[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Kurt_Laughlin
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 577

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 12:07 pm
Post subject: Frankentank

Hi Jeff:

That's a typical IDF vehicle - the basic hull is an M4A4. The French (post-war) converted them over to R975 radial engines and put M4/M4A1 decks on them, calling them M4A4Transforme or modified. The Israelis added the HVSS and Cummins engine. I don't know if they had any howitzer tanks, so the turret may be from the current or previous owner. The French would stamp the vehicle S/N in the bottom center of the glacis (about where the tarp is).

It looks like the S/N is 17884, which makes more sense for an M4A4 (7884 was an M4A2).

Good find,
KL
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 1:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

Jeff,
Does the Sherman belong to the museum, or some private owner?

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

Hey Neil, this Sherman belongs to the museum and is usually stored inside beside some M3 Halftracks. I recorded numbers from various areas of the body, but the number stamped into the edge of the front glacis, should tell us some more about this tanks history once I get info mack from Joe Demarco. The number is B1491.
I also had to post this picture of my boys with the Sherman!!!

[img][/img]
[img][/img]

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Frankentank

Hi Kurt! Hi Folks!

- Kurt_Laughlin

I don't know if they had any howitzer tanks,....
KL


Yes they did. Some of the first tanks they picked up came from de-mil sites. The 105mm barrels had holes drilled into them. The IDF patched them up and used them during the earlier years. There are a few pictures floating around of IDF Shermans with 105 gun mantels mounting standard 75mm gun barrels.

As for where that 105mm turret came from, I THINK(?) I read somewhere that the museum had it and mounted it on this hull which came without a turret.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:01 am
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

The TC of this vehicle told me that the turret was not original, and that the interior had "blast marks" to the inside of the hull which stopped at the turret ring. Since I was with the kids and there were many more people around, I didn't ask for a look inside. I did ask if there was a dada plate in the drivers hole and was told it was missing.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

Hello all, I sent the pictures and info on this Sherman to Joe Demarco and here is what he told me along with two pictures;

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the report. That was originally built by Chrysler as an M4A4. Just a guess that it was sent to the French as Lend Lease during WW II. The French supplied a lot of Shermans to Israel in the 1950s. They upgunned them with a French copy of the Panther's 75mm. They were re-engined with Cummins diesels, were retrofitted with HVSS, & that one got a new differential, since all M4A4s were originally built with 3-piece diffs. The Israeli designation for that conversion was M50. That particular example no longer has its M50 turret, but instead has a 105mm turret. I believe the M50 turret from the Mabry is on a M4A3(105) range wreck hull at a Tank Museum in Illinois. And yes, the original US serial number of the Mabry is 17884, indicating it was built by Chrysler in Jan, 1943.

Here's what a relatively complete M50 looks like. This one is S/N 17091, & used to be owned by a gent in Texas.

As you know from your later Chrysler built Shermans at Hood, the number stamped into the edge of the glacis is a loose build number. I can't make sense of it on the M4A4s. That would have been about the 2730th M4A4 accepted, so B1491 is not even close. The M4A4 at APG is SN 19617, & it has B2333 stamped on there & that doesn't make any sense either. I think the other numbers stampings you found have to do with the individual armor plates.

Thanks again, Jeff.

[img][/img]
[img][/img]

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:47 am
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

- SFC_Jeff_Button
"That was originally built by Chrysler as an M4A4. Just a guess that it was sent to the French as Lend Lease during WW II. The French supplied a lot of Shermans to Israel in the 1950s. They upgunned them with a French copy of the Panther's 75mm. They were re-engined with Cummins diesels, were retrofitted with HVSS, & that one got a new differential, since all M4A4s were originally built with 3-piece diffs. The Israeli designation for that conversion was M50. That particular example no longer has its M50 turret, but instead has a 105mm turret. I believe the M50 turret from the Mabry is on a M4A3(105) range wreck hull at a Tank Museum in Illinois."


What a cobbled together piece of wheezing old battlefield pickup! Junkyard hull, bastardized differential, replacement engine, scrapped engine deck, counterfeit gun, upgraded suspension, shadetree swap turret dragged off a firing range, etc. Five or six owners. Gasp! Cough! Snort!

I can't believe anyone is taking this running, functional, complete Sherman tank seriously. What's their address? I'll give them $50 (Canadian because it is actually more than the US$ today), to take that old wreck off their hands. Somebody's gotta know the name of the guy in charge. Money talks.
Back to top
View user's profile
toadmanstankpictures
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

- Maple_Leaf_Eh

What a cobbled together piece of wheezing old battlefield pickup! Junkyard hull, bastardized differential, replacement engine, scrapped engine deck, counterfeit gun, upgraded suspension, shadetree swap turret dragged off a firing range, etc. Five or six owners. Gasp! Cough! Snort!


I think you just gave the text book description of a M50. Laughing

_________________
Chris "toadman" Hughes
www.toadmanstankpictures.com
www.cafepress.com/toad...ksandstuff
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

Wow, these former Israeli Shermans are stretching my ability to describe them in brief terms in the AFV Register entries!

Okay, the tank museum in Illinious is the Russell Military Museum... Jeff, I think that's what the first pic is of???

I'm guessing the second M50 is the one that used be owned by a private owner in Fredericksburg TX - Jeff, can you confirm that (or is this another former TX M50?), and if so where it is currently? Its painted in the same style as the one at the Virginia Museum of Military Vehicles - but that one has been there for years, and has never looked so good unless its been recently restored. Wink Could be the one in Toole, UT I suppose...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:16 am
Post subject: Re: Camp Mabry running M4A3...

Hello Neil,
The Tan painted Sherman is titled "Fred M50". The OD Sherman is titled "Kenosah M4A3 105 w/M50 turret". That tan Sherman is sharp looking.
My sons, age 8 and 13 didn't care it was "cobbled together" and quite frankly, neither did I. We had never seen a Sherman run and fire before, (even though they were blanks) so it was quite a treat for us. As you can see, my sons have been in, and gotton a ride through the desert in an M2 Halftrack, (the same one Doug got to drive, lucky devil!) climbed into an M578, and been in numerous helicopters, armor, jeeps, etc.... Now I just need to get them to that "Ontos" nearby here that Dontos is trying to hook me up with between their many baseball, soccer, football, basketball practices and games. My sons really enjoy military history, both ground and wingy-things. My next project is to get into the local MVPA, purchase a vehicle / trailer, and get them even more emmersed into the history. I have Doug to thank because until they met him, they just thought it was one of dad's weird hobbies, haha. Enough blabbing!

[img][/img]
[img][/img]

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum