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M2A2 105mm Howitzer and Cannon in Ash Flat Arkansas
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:04 pm
Post subject: M2A2 105mm Howitzer and Cannon in Ash Flat Arkansas

Went to Ash Flat looking for an M47 and found this as a bonus along with a very old cannon.

M2A2 105mm Howitzer

M2A2 105mm Howitzer

Data Plate with SN

Breech SN

They also have this old muzzle loading cannon, looks authentic, but with all the fakes being made I leave it up to you guys to decide.

Cannon

Stampings and SN

Joe D
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:13 am
Post subject: Re: M2A2 105mm Howitzer and Cannon in Ash Flat Arkansas

Joe did you get a shot of the muzzle of the old cannon. There are often markings there that help identify it. Also from your overall shot it appears to have an octagonal bore. That suggests that it is rifled. Also did you measure the diameter of the bore?

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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:24 am
Post subject: Re: M2A2 105mm Howitzer and Cannon in Ash Flat Arkansas

Bob,

From what I recall the muzzle was octagonal, but I don't remember any markings on it. Now about the diameter of the bore......., well I really wasn't even going to photo this cannon at first, but changed my mind since it had the markings on the back. Measuring the bore never entered my mind. I'll do that next time I'm up that way, next week or so.

Joe D
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armyjunk2
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:47 pm
Post subject: Re: M2A2 105mm Howitzer and Cannon in Ash Flat Arkansas

Joe, I found this online

It was made by Cyrus Alger and Company in Boston, Mass. in 1861.

Barrel Length: 57 inches
Bore: 2 5/8 inches
Diameter at the Breech: 10 inches
Muzzle Diameter: 6 inches
Estimated weight: 680 pounds (Marked) - not including the carriage.


Cyrus Alger & Co.: Cyrus Alger, who during the War of 1812 furnished the government with shot and shell, in 1817 started South Boston Iron company which at an early date was known locally as Alger's Foundry and later became Cyrus Alger & Co. The Massachusetts firm was a leading cannon manufacturer and when Cyrus died in 1856, leadership was assumed by his son, Francis, who piloted the company until his death in 1864. During the war, both Army and Navy were supplied with a large numbers of weapons. The initials "S. B. F." (South Boston Foundry) occasionally may be found on cannon, but the signature is traditionally "C.A. & Co., Boston, Mass." or, rarely, "C. Alger & Co., Boston, Mass." like this one.
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:21 am
Post subject: Re: M2A2 105mm Howitzer and Cannon in Ash Flat Arkansas

Bob,

Got bored and went up to Ash Flat yesterday and took these.

Octogon Muzzle with "261" stamp
Muzzle Measurement
Elevation Device
Front Sight
Rear
"6BO" Stamping

Hope this is what you need. Needed an excuse to get out of the house, Sundays are just maddening.

Joe D
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:58 am
Post subject: Re: M2A2 105mm Howitzer and Cannon in Ash Flat Arkansas

Now I'm not an expert on Civil War Cannon but here are my thoughts

It appears to be iron (bronze would be the other common metal for pieces in this era) that is easy enough to check with a pocket magnet but bronze pieces aren't usually painted but allowed to take on a green patena.

I believe it is a naval cannon. The elevation screw and the slotted device (cascabal?) at the breech lead me to that. most field arty used a screw under the breech and eithe a plain rounded end or a ball type appendage on the breech centerline. the longer elevation screw I think appears on naval cannon because of clearance issues on the slide mounts or lower naval trucks the guns were mounted on. The slot at the rear was used for the rope cables that absorbed the recoil and kept the gun from running all over the deck.

I would say 680 is the weight of the barrel. On many army field guns I have seen (mainly 12 pd 'Napoleons' that are smooth bore bronze with a diameter of 4.6" (I think) and 3" 'Ordinance rifles) the foundry and barrel weight is on the muzzle. Given the octagonal bore I suspect it is a rifled gun and from the bore would suspect it would be classed as something in the 8-10 pd category ( I believe 10 pd parrot rifled cannon and 3" Ordinance rifles fired rounds of similar enough size they were interchanged but i would have to figure out where I read that). Rifled rounds were often called 'Bolts' and being elongated would be heavier than rounds from a similar sized smooth bore.

Again I think I'm pretty knowledgable and this should be on the right track but if someone has definitive information would be glad to know what i screwed up

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MikeT
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:20 am
Post subject: Re: M2A2 105mm Howitzer and Cannon in Ash Flat Arkansas

Thanks for the pics on the 105. I spent 3 years going deaf with them in Canada. Those pictures bring back great memories. Of course, we don't camouflage our guns...we just paint them olive drab!

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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:56 am
Post subject: Re: M2A2 105mm Howitzer and Cannon in Ash Flat Arkansas

Another location for ID stampings on 19th century pieces is on the ends of the trunnions.

KL
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