±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 222
Total: 222
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Photo Gallery
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Member Screenshots
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: News Archive
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Photo Gallery
28: Community Forums
29: Home
30: Photo Gallery
31: Community Forums
32: Home
33: Community Forums
34: Photo Gallery
35: Community Forums
36: Photo Gallery
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Downloads
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Community Forums
48: Home
49: Home
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Home
54: Photo Gallery
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Photo Gallery
58: Photo Gallery
59: CPGlang
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Home
64: CPGlang
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: CPGlang
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Photo Gallery
77: Home
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Member Screenshots
84: Home
85: Home
86: Downloads
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Photo Gallery
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Photo Gallery
97: Downloads
98: Community Forums
99: Home
100: Home
101: Photo Gallery
102: Home
103: Home
104: Photo Gallery
105: Photo Gallery
106: Community Forums
107: Photo Gallery
108: Photo Gallery
109: Photo Gallery
110: Home
111: Community Forums
112: Home
113: Downloads
114: Your Account
115: Photo Gallery
116: Your Account
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Home
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: News Archive
131: Home
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Photo Gallery
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Statistics
139: Member Screenshots
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: CPGlang
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Community Forums
149: Community Forums
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: CPGlang
153: Downloads
154: Photo Gallery
155: Photo Gallery
156: Community Forums
157: Photo Gallery
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Photo Gallery
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Supporters
172: Community Forums
173: Photo Gallery
174: Home
175: Photo Gallery
176: Home
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Home
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Photo Gallery
183: Photo Gallery
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Home
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Home
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Downloads
195: Community Forums
196: News Archive
197: Community Forums
198: Photo Gallery
199: Your Account
200: Home
201: News Archive
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Downloads
205: Home
206: Community Forums
207: Photo Gallery
208: Home
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Photo Gallery
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Photo Gallery
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Photo Gallery
220: Photo Gallery
221: Downloads
222: Photo Gallery

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
What was the most produced tank of all time?
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:32 pm
Post subject: What was the most produced tank of all time?

I don't have my reference books handy and this question crossed my mind. I believe I know the answer but I'm not sure.

Production numbers as I remember them were

Sherman about 50,000
T-34 about 70,000

has any other tank approached those numbers?

How many T-54/55 were produced (and should they be considered a single model? What about the Chinese copies are they a seperate vehicle?

What about the FT-17 series?

I don't think the Centurian or M-60 come close but does anyone have total numbers for them?

This is one of those questions I can see a Cub scout asking and I want to at least have thought about it first.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:27 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

you know you just opened up a hornet's nest right Bob? Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:04 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

- piney
you know you just opened up a hornet's nest right Bob? Laughing


Actually yes. We haven't had a wide ranging semi-freeflow dicussion for a while.

I just found a web source that claims 84,070 for the T-34 and says it is the 'second most produced tank being surpassed by the T54/T55 but in it's entries for the T54 and T55 (Which it lists seperatly so why did it include them as one model for production? Rolling Eyes ) it says production figures are not available.

I think 84,000 is higher than I have heard before for T-34 but considering it stayed in production after WWII is at least a reasonable number (I have also heard 55,000 mentioned as Wartime T-34 production which would put it pretty much on a par with the Sherman.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

I read somewhere that all of those totals INCLUDE other nations manufacturing numbers as well, not just from Russia. And that the T-54/55 is what I read too is the most produced tank. Cool
Back to top
View user's profile
LeeW
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

Could some of the numbers include other vehicles built on the T-34 chassy?
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:02 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

Interesting....

A few thoughts on quantifying the subject:

1) Do you qualify production numbers in "tank series" (ie Sherman, Stuart, T34,...) or "specific variant"? (ie M4, M4A1 M4A2, M4A4, T34/76, T34/85,....)

2) Do you specify 'original' country of build production figures or just overall figures (including export licensed production)?

Without a clearly defined point of discussion, you might spin into a popularity contest, which does not do the topic any justice.

Such 'amaturish' historical discussions are best left for the History Channel. Shocked

Cool
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:15 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

- Dontos
Interesting....

A few thoughts on quantifying the subject:

1) Do you qualify production numbers in "tank series" (ie Sherman, Stuart, T34,...) or "specific variant"? (ie M4, M4A1 M4A2, M4A4, T34/76, T34/85,....)

2) Do you specify 'original' country of build production figures or just overall figures (including export licensed production)?

Without a clearly defined point of discussion, you might spin into a popularity contest, which does not do the topic any justice.

Such 'amaturish' historical discussions are best left for the History Channel. Shocked

Cool
Don


1) I am looking for 'series production There are even some gray areas there

Is the Stuart family (M3/M5) one series or two? The largest differences between the M3 and the M5 are about the same as the M4 and the M4A2, M4A3 and M4A4. I consider the M3 & M5 to be part of the same series.

Same goes with the T54/T55 series. I think most reference sources combine them into one series.

I am not including varient vehicles that chnaged the 'form or function' of teh vehicle. For example I am not including M10 or M36 production as part of the Sherman production. Nor am I including Su-85 7 Su-100 production as part of the T-34 production

2) If License production did not make significant changes to the vehicle that would make it part of the series. For example the Valentine tanks built in Canada would be counted with the UK Valentines. I believe the 'Grizzly' production in Canada would count with the Sherman production (I probably need to check but I believe they were sraight license built M4A1 vehicles). Eastern block T54/55 production would count as part of Soviet T54/55. I believe that basic Chinese production of T54/55 copies would count (T-69?) but if a debate opens up about differences I think it would be informative

I think there is a clearly defined point of discussion. 'How many?' is a straight quantitative question. I am not asking which is 'The Best' or 'The most effective' or the prettiest. I'm simply trying to collect production numbers. I believe there needs to be some documentation of the numbers some one claims before it will be accepted.

An interesting offshoot and possibly more subject to judgement calls would be Which tank was in production the longest? In that case would Anniston rebuilds of M60s count as 'production'? (They were given new serial numbers) but the beginning and end dates of series production should be fairly easy to pin down.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:02 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

- bsmart

An interesting offshoot and possibly more subject to judgement calls would be Which tank was in production the longest? In that case would Anniston rebuilds of M60s count as 'production'? (They were given new serial numbers) but the beginning and end dates of series production should be fairly easy to pin down.


Bob,
While it's up to you to establish the criteria for your own question, I'm inclined to think of a "rebuild" as just that. If it doesn't involve casting a new hull (or components thereof, if welded), then maybe it's not really "in production". This gets really fuzzy if one makes the same distinction regarding the turret, however. Was an M60A2 "new production" or a "rebuild" to newer type. How many were based on existing hulls originally part of, or slated for, M60A1 production ("calling Joe D., calling Joe D.....")

Can of worms, indeed! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Hanno_Spoelstra
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:00 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

- bsmart
I believe the 'Grizzly' production in Canada would count with the Sherman production (I probably need to check but I believe they were sraight license built M4A1 vehicles).


The Grizzly wasn´t even a license built M4A1, as it was assembled from mainly US-built components (like the hull and turret castings, engine, gearbox, main gun etc.) in Canada. Montreal Locomotive Works did not do a lot more than bolt together a giant kit of parts.

So Grizzly production should surely count with Sherman production.

HTH,
Hanno
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:36 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

- Doug_Kibbey
- bsmart

An interesting offshoot and possibly more subject to judgement calls would be Which tank was in production the longest? In that case would Anniston rebuilds of M60s count as 'production'? (They were given new serial numbers) but the beginning and end dates of series production should be fairly easy to pin down.


Bob,
While it's up to you to establish the criteria for your own question, I'm inclined to think of a "rebuild" as just that. If it doesn't involve casting a new hull (or components thereof, if welded), then maybe it's not really "in production". This gets really fuzzy if one makes the same distinction regarding the turret, however. Was an M60A2 "new production" or a "rebuild" to newer type. How many were based on existing hulls originally part of, or slated for, M60A1 production ("calling Joe D., calling Joe D.....")

Can of worms, indeed! Laughing


I agree with your opinion I do not believe that 'rebuilt' vehicles should count no matter how substantiallythey have been 'remanufactured' (If we did some Shermans could be counted 3 or 4 times - Initial build, rebuild at depot before being sent overseas, often on Lend Lease, Then by the French or Israelis one or more times in the postwar era :-)). I was just using the M60 example of one where confusion can come in because the vehicle was re-serialized in the process.

So I think I have pinned down the methodology (at least for the moment) Who has some numbers?
FT-17 -
M3/M5 Stuart -
M4 Sherman -
T34 -
Centurian -
T54/55
M60 -
Any other contenders?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:35 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

Perhaps the M48 Series should be thrown in the mix. Not sure of any real numbers but through the various variants and export it should be in the 'mid-pack' running of your list.

JMHO
Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:43 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

Could the M-48 and the M-60 be considered one series? There is probably as much commonality as with an M4A1 (75) Sherman and an M4A3E8. or as a T34/76 and a T34/85.

I think I'll make it M48/M60 Patton for the count.

I have pretty good numbers for most WWII tanks that I'll be putting in later tonight

I am having trouble finding numbers for T54/55 and haven't started looking for Centurian or M48/M60 numbers yet. Also I could use an independent count of Sherman and T34 numbers

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:48 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

I'll throw out some numbers, from Jane's MBTs - a pretty good source, but I won't say it's the final word:

Centurion: production table totals 4423
M60: only a text reference: "...over 15,000 M60 series MBTs had been built" upto May 1985
M48: "total production ... amounted to 11,703 units"
Leopard 1: production table totals 4744

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Taranov
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Posts: 344
Location: Moscow, Russia
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:21 pm
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

T-54/T-55 - something like 100.000 total
It's not different tanks, it's one family. And it's not last example of indexes funnies in soviet/russian tanks history. Initial index of T-90 - T-72BU Wink
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:25 am
Post subject: Re: What was the most produced tank of all time?

Here are the numbers I have come up with today

T-34 – 84,070 – Militaryfactory.com via ask.com
– 57,339 during WWII (Wikipedia)

KV-1/KV-85 - ~5,200 (Wikipedia)

M-3 Grant/Lee – 6,258 (Wikipedia)

M-4 Sherman - 55,000??? I'm still working on this

M-3/M-5 Stuart – 22,744 (Wikipedia)

Churchill – 5,640 (Chamberlain & Ellis)

Cromwell/Centaur – 4,016 (Wikipedia)

Crusader – 5,300 (Chamberlain& Ellis)

Valentine – 8,275 (C&E)

Matilda – 2987 (C&E)

Panzer III – 5,774 (Wikipedia

Panzer IV – 8,870 (Wikipedia)

Panther – 5,987 (Wikipedia)

Tiger I – 1,355 (Wikipedia)

Tiger II – 487 (Wikipedia)

I want to confirm the numbers from Wikipedia but they do reference Zaloga for some of their Panzer information

Thanks Trevor and Taranov for your inputs. I was surprised how few Centurians were produced. And is anyone else surprised that the Valentine was the most produced British tank of WWII?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum