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Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1, M4A1 76 VVSS
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:21 am
Post subject: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1, M4A1 76 VVSS

Hi Folks,

Found the following items setting out in front of the Ft Bliss Musuem on Friday.

View of some of the new vehicles.
[img][/img] M4%20A1%2076mm%20VVSS [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img]

Spot Report!
Sgt Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:29 am
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

I have to assume these are showing up from Germany - right? Any shipping labels still attached by chance?

Neil
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:20 am
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

- Neil_Baumgardner

I have to assume these are showing up from Germany - right? Any shipping labels still attached by chance?
Neil


I am also assuming the Hester, M114, M24, and the M4A1 did come from Germany. The M41 was found out in the desert. The staff as of last Monday, had no information about the M3 Stuart.

As for shipping labels, ff there was any, they had been removed by the time I arrived at the Museum. The only none unit/vehicle type markings are those white #1, 2, 7, and 13 markings.

The base newspaper had a story, three or four weeks ago, about the 1st AD Museum starting to move it's vehicle collection with a photo of a M5 Stuart hanging in the air. No listing of what was being ship other than that Stuart in the photo. I haven't seen it yet.

I have recieved a report that a halftrack was unloaded. I haven't seen it, possible the wing wiping modeller who made the first report doesn't know one AFV from a another. He called the M114 a smaller virsion of a M113.

I will conduct another recon mission ASAP and report any news.
Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:26 am
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

I found this video - I think you can see the Hetzer ever so briefly...

And that half-track appears to be a German one...

www.army.mil/media/amp...7862329001

Neil
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:29 am
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

Here's an article - probably the same picture you saw:

www.army.mil/-news/200...id=twitter




1st Armored Division Museum moves to Fort Bliss

Sep 9, 2009

By Ignacio Rubalcava
1st Armored Division Museum moves to Fort Bliss

BAUMHOLDER, Germany -- Being in the military, sooner or later everyone has to pack up and move. But what if your baggage includes numerous tanks, half-tracks, artillery pieces and a building full of old uniforms, weapons and other military paraphernalia? That's the challenge the 1st Armored Division Museum is facing as it relocates to Fort Bliss, Texas, along with the 1st AD and the 2nd Brigade Combat Team.

To help with moving the tanks and half-tracks, the U.S. Army Garrison Baumholder called on the local Rech Crane Company. A massive red crane, one of the company's biggest, made simple work of loading the vehicles onto the waiting semi-trucks.

Even though Rech employees operate cranes and move things for a living, moving World War II-era vehicles is not something they do every day. Several Rech employees as well as the truck drivers were training their cell phones and digital cameras on the movement.

Even the crane operator, Heiko Kunz, paused to capture the moment by snapping a photo from high atop his strategic location in the "driver's" seat.

"Today we are loading up some of our vehicles that will be located at Fort Bliss, Texas, in support of the 1st Armored Division moving to Fort Bliss," said Ryan Mayer, museum specialist.

"The museum follows the division, in support of the division, so when the division was relocated to Fort Bliss, the museum follows, as it did when the division deployed to Germany in the '70s. This is a natural kind of occurrence," said Mayer.

"These vehicles are tangible reminders, witnesses if you will, of the division's history, the division's long history," he said.

"It's important that these vehicles go with the division so they can continue to educate, inspire, 1st Armored Division Soldiers of their proud history. I look forward to seeing the new museum at Fort Bliss," said Mayer.

The actual name of the museum is the Old Ironsides Museum. It was first established at Fort, Hood, Texas, during the 1950s. Following the 1st Armored Division's move to Germany in 1971, the museum reestablished in Ansbach, Germany.

Museum curator Nicole Suarez is responsible for coordinating the museum's move to Fort Bliss. She said she feels confident with the support she has received.

"We're lucky to have the support of the Baumholder garrison," said Suarez. "The logistics team here is amazing. They're true professionals, and we feel pretty comfortable with them moving our vehicles."

Suarez worked at the museum last year as a volunteer. When the curator left she took over as curator.

And although she has only worked a short time at the museum, she said she has an emotional attachment to these reminders of the past.

"It's hard letting go. They're like children. It's hard letting people take care of them for a while," said Suarez.

"But I think everything will be just fine. If things go like they have gone today we're going to be great," she said.

After the relocation of the 1st AD Headquarters to Bad Kreuznach, Germany, in 1991, Baumholder was chosen as the new home for the museum.

The large installation size and high troop numbers made it a logical choice. Work began in 1992 and the museum opened on Baumholder the following year.

The Old Ironsides Museum now follows the division to its new home at Fort Bliss, Texas.

When the members of the division arrive after their deployment to Iraq, they'll find the museum ready and waiting to include the latest chapter of the storied unit's history.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:38 am
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

Hi Neil! Hi Folks!

That's the story and the photo I was talking about.

Well done Sir!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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binder001
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

Nice to see the M4A1 76mm Wet Stowage returned to the US. We have lots of M4A1 76's with HVSS, which (so far) have not been recorded as seeing combat. This tank with VVSS was likely a combat veteran, plus there aren't many of those in the CONUS (I think Knox has (had) one stored away - don't know of any others in the US.

I see the commander's hatch is open - what is the interior condition?

Gary B.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

Gary,
As you mentioned, Fort Knox should have an M4A1(76) in storage - although I believe its current location is unknown...

There's also one at the LTC Herbert Mills 1-33 Armor Memorial at Fort Lewis (albeit in the colors of 8-1 Cavalry)



But yeah, you're right - just 3 M4A1(76)VVSS! in the US... I hadnt realized that before!

Neil


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hanno_Spoelstra
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

Nice to see the M4A1 76mm Wet Stowage returned to the US. We have lots of M4A1 76's with HVSS, which (so far) have not been recorded as seeing combat. This tank with VVSS was likely a combat veteran, plus there aren't many of those in the CONUS (I think Knox has (had) one stored away - don't know of any others in the US.

I see the commander's hatch is open - what is the interior condition?

Gary B


Gary,

I would not say "this is likely a combat veteran" based on the fact that this is an M4A1(76)W. I agree the type was in combat use during WW2, but many more were still stockpiled or used for training when the war ended.

The Baumholder museum sourced various AFVs from friendly armies in Europe, so this Sherman could have come from France, for example, instead of being a genuine ex-1st AD example.

Can someone find out it’s serial number? Or see if the serial number is duplicated on the glacis (typical French feature)?

Thanks,
Hanno
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Hanno_Spoelstra
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

And oh, I have pleasant memories of this M4A1(76)W. The guys from 1st AD took in to an open house day of the Dutch Army many years ago. I had the pleasure of being given the opportunity to drive it both on and off road. The smile I wear today is still the same from that day!

Hanno
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binder001
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

Hanno, you are quite right. I tend to think of the medium tank shortage in Europe but I forget that M4A1 76mm types were being delivered into 1945. It would be interesting to know more. If this was indeed a combat veteran it may well have been with British forces in Europe or Italy. I know that both the Italian and French armies used these after WW2, so this vehicle might have some interesting stories to tell.

Until you mentioned driving this tank I had also forgotten that I had seen photos of a restored (or at least operational) M4A1 76mm with the US Army in Germany. Is this the same? It would be great if it had a unit "adopt" it and keep it in good shape.

Gary
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

According to Joe Demarco on G104, the 1st AD Museum in Baumholder had 2 M4A1(76)s - including 1 runner (SN 52002).

BTW, the 1st AD Museum at Baumholder also had the following - which will hopefully show up at Fort Bliss

M4A3(75)W VVSS S/N 49047
M3 Lee S/N 4559
M74
M7B2
M7B2
M10 S/N 6412
M20
M74
T-72

Neil
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

I think the M4A1(76), here at Ft Knox, that you are thinking about is the Flamethrower conversion.

It was in LST Building & is now in Richardson MP



Unless there is another that I have never seen,..... Shocked
Regards
Don
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

Hmm... I think you're right. I'll take it off the Knox "unknown" list...

Any ideas on the following "unknowns"?:

M1 Abrams USA std SN D1301, RN JZ01VZ; formerly at 16th Cavalry HQ



M4A3E8 Sherman Easy Eight USA std SN 65997; formerly at Abrams Center
M74 USA std SN 73362
M551 Sheridan USA std RN 13F158; Formerly at Harris Hall

Also, has that M109A5 left for Greenville KY?

Neil
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Something new at Ft Bliss Texas 1

That IPM-1 was actually property of KYARNG and was repainted and supposedly to be shipped to Greenville along with the M109A5. It is not at the MAIT site, or anywhere on Ft Knox

That Sheridan is at Wilson Gate, I think. I haven't had the chance to check that out though. Too much construction in the area.

The rest, I'll check out on Wednesday.

Roy, you need to get busy building up a volunteer program!! What a great inventory,....enjoy it.

Regards
Don
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