±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 598
Total: 598
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: CPGlang
02: Community Forums
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Downloads
13: Home
14: Downloads
15: Community Forums
16: Photo Gallery
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Photo Gallery
30: Community Forums
31: CPGlang
32: Photo Gallery
33: Your Account
34: Community Forums
35: Your Account
36: Community Forums
37: Member Screenshots
38: Community Forums
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Photo Gallery
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Treasury
46: Community Forums
47: News
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Photo Gallery
54: Community Forums
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Home
58: Photo Gallery
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Home
64: Home
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Photo Gallery
68: Downloads
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Downloads
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Statistics
78: Community Forums
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Statistics
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Photo Gallery
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: News Archive
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Photo Gallery
100: Downloads
101: Community Forums
102: Community Forums
103: News Archive
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Your Account
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Community Forums
112: News
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Home
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Community Forums
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Community Forums
124: Community Forums
125: Home
126: Home
127: Community Forums
128: Home
129: Community Forums
130: Downloads
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Your Account
141: Home
142: Home
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: CPGlang
148: Community Forums
149: Photo Gallery
150: Downloads
151: Treasury
152: News
153: Downloads
154: Downloads
155: Downloads
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Downloads
159: Your Account
160: Photo Gallery
161: Photo Gallery
162: Photo Gallery
163: Photo Gallery
164: Community Forums
165: Community Forums
166: Community Forums
167: Photo Gallery
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Photo Gallery
173: Home
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Downloads
180: Downloads
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Photo Gallery
184: Your Account
185: Your Account
186: Community Forums
187: Member Screenshots
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Member Screenshots
195: News
196: Your Account
197: Downloads
198: Community Forums
199: Home
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Photo Gallery
207: Downloads
208: Community Forums
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Community Forums
214: Community Forums
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Downloads
218: Photo Gallery
219: Photo Gallery
220: Photo Gallery
221: Downloads
222: Home
223: Home
224: Photo Gallery
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Home
230: CPGlang
231: Downloads
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Community Forums
247: Photo Gallery
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Photo Gallery
251: Community Forums
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Community Forums
256: Member Screenshots
257: Community Forums
258: Home
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Community Forums
267: Community Forums
268: News
269: Home
270: Community Forums
271: Photo Gallery
272: Downloads
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Community Forums
276: Photo Gallery
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Community Forums
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Photo Gallery
294: Your Account
295: Photo Gallery
296: Community Forums
297: Community Forums
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Community Forums
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums
306: Photo Gallery
307: Community Forums
308: Photo Gallery
309: Downloads
310: Community Forums
311: Community Forums
312: Community Forums
313: Photo Gallery
314: Community Forums
315: Photo Gallery
316: Community Forums
317: Community Forums
318: Photo Gallery
319: Community Forums
320: Community Forums
321: Photo Gallery
322: Community Forums
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Photo Gallery
327: Community Forums
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Community Forums
331: Photo Gallery
332: Photo Gallery
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Home
336: Community Forums
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Photo Gallery
341: Photo Gallery
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Downloads
348: Statistics
349: Community Forums
350: CPGlang
351: Community Forums
352: Community Forums
353: Community Forums
354: Community Forums
355: Downloads
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Downloads
359: Community Forums
360: Community Forums
361: Community Forums
362: Community Forums
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums
365: Photo Gallery
366: Community Forums
367: Member Screenshots
368: Community Forums
369: CPGlang
370: Community Forums
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Downloads
375: Community Forums
376: Photo Gallery
377: Community Forums
378: Downloads
379: Downloads
380: Community Forums
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Photo Gallery
388: Community Forums
389: Community Forums
390: Photo Gallery
391: Photo Gallery
392: Your Account
393: Photo Gallery
394: Community Forums
395: Home
396: Community Forums
397: Community Forums
398: Member Screenshots
399: Member Screenshots
400: Community Forums
401: Community Forums
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Community Forums
405: Photo Gallery
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Home
409: Downloads
410: Community Forums
411: Community Forums
412: Home
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: Home
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Home
420: Community Forums
421: Community Forums
422: Community Forums
423: Home
424: Home
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Photo Gallery
428: Home
429: Community Forums
430: Community Forums
431: Home
432: Community Forums
433: Photo Gallery
434: Community Forums
435: Community Forums
436: Community Forums
437: Community Forums
438: Downloads
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Your Account
442: Community Forums
443: Home
444: Community Forums
445: Community Forums
446: Downloads
447: Community Forums
448: Community Forums
449: Community Forums
450: Community Forums
451: Community Forums
452: Community Forums
453: Community Forums
454: Photo Gallery
455: Photo Gallery
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: Community Forums
460: Community Forums
461: Downloads
462: Photo Gallery
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Community Forums
466: Photo Gallery
467: Community Forums
468: Photo Gallery
469: Photo Gallery
470: Home
471: Home
472: Photo Gallery
473: Community Forums
474: Photo Gallery
475: Community Forums
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Photo Gallery
481: Downloads
482: Community Forums
483: Community Forums
484: Photo Gallery
485: Photo Gallery
486: Home
487: Community Forums
488: Home
489: Statistics
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: Community Forums
493: Photo Gallery
494: CPGlang
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Community Forums
498: Your Account
499: Community Forums
500: Photo Gallery
501: Community Forums
502: Photo Gallery
503: Home
504: Community Forums
505: Home
506: Photo Gallery
507: Community Forums
508: Community Forums
509: Home
510: Community Forums
511: Community Forums
512: Community Forums
513: Photo Gallery
514: Photo Gallery
515: Community Forums
516: Community Forums
517: Photo Gallery
518: Photo Gallery
519: Community Forums
520: Home
521: Community Forums
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Home
529: Photo Gallery
530: Community Forums
531: Community Forums
532: Photo Gallery
533: Home
534: Community Forums
535: Photo Gallery
536: Community Forums
537: Photo Gallery
538: Community Forums
539: Home
540: Downloads
541: Home
542: Community Forums
543: Photo Gallery
544: Photo Gallery
545: Home
546: Home
547: Community Forums
548: Community Forums
549: Home
550: Photo Gallery
551: Community Forums
552: News Archive
553: Community Forums
554: Home
555: Community Forums
556: Community Forums
557: Community Forums
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Community Forums
561: Community Forums
562: Community Forums
563: Community Forums
564: Community Forums
565: Community Forums
566: Search
567: Community Forums
568: Home
569: Community Forums
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Photo Gallery
573: Community Forums
574: Community Forums
575: Member Screenshots
576: Home
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Photo Gallery
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Photo Gallery
584: Home
585: Home
586: Home
587: Photo Gallery
588: Community Forums
589: Community Forums
590: Community Forums
591: Community Forums
592: Community Forums
593: Photo Gallery
594: Photo Gallery
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:27 pm
Post subject: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello,

Wiml Dirks pointed something out in an email I received some days ago :

Bruce Crompton, who owns a SdKfz 250, a 251 and what is believed to be an original Jagdpanzer 38(t), participated to a reenactment event at Overloon in May 2010.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50285153@N07/sets/72157623957457977/

Some photos of the interior show the marking "Achtung! Panzerjägerkanone 40 - schiessen ohne Mündungsbremse verboten", which translated, means "Beware! Panzerjäger gun 40 - Fire without the muzzle brake is forbidden"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50285153@N07/4615687815/in/set-72157623957457977/

The problem is that German Jagdpanzer 38(t) don't have muzzle brakes, only G-13s have this feature.

Does it mean that the tank is indeed a G-13, or does it rather mean that the interior was restored like a G-13 interior?

Pierre-Olivier

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I'd say it's a G13, since only G13s have the muzzle brakes, like you say. The German text must have been put on by the Swiss since it's effectively their primary language (whether officially or not).

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

On top of that, original Hetzers had KwK 39 guns, G-13s had StuK 40 guns. So even the number referring to the gun tells it could be a G-13.

But I have to say that usually stencils on swiss tanks are written both in german and french.

I just checked my interior pictures from the G-13 in Schaffhausen, and saw no stencils at all.

I would still hesitate to flag this as G-13. Better put a question mark on it.

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
WimD.
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 118
Location: The Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.
Back to top
View user's profile
the_shadock
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2865
Location: Normandy, France
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- WimD.
Pierre-Olivier's website says the Crompton tank comes from Vilseck, looking at this information and a picture I found somewhere on the internet I do not think it is a Swiss G-13.

Regards,
Wim D.


yes, but the information on my website are not 100% reliable..

P-O

_________________
soldat_ryan @ hotmail.com

Looking for photos of Sherman manufacturer's plates
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

He has done a good job on it but after spending the past two hours going through every image I have of these vehicles I think I can safely say it was originally a G13/G13D/G14...

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all,

I just saw this topic and I might be able to contribute a bit.

I made the pics in the gallery linked in the first post. The marking in question is indeed incorrect for this vehicle. It is an older restoration and I guess that interior photos from an G-13 (possibly from a manual) were used as a reference. According to the Crompton Collection's chief mechanic (who didn't work on the restoration of the Hetzer), some time in the future it is scheduled to have a rebuild which would include a full repaint inside and out along with a full mechanical overhaul. There are several other restorationprojects in the pipeline that come first though, so it might be a while before it's the Hetzers' turn.

That said, this Hetzer is an original 1944 early production vehicle. It was indeed recovered from the Vilseck barracks where it was buried after the war, together with (I think) a Pz IV. It still has battle scars on mainly the right side from small arms fire and shrapnel. It also has most of the features found on early production vehicles (exhaust route, early pattern roadwheels and first pattern drive sprockets).

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
VonForhud
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 162

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Why would someone bury a hetzer and a Mark IV? Lack of fuel?

_________________
hvasnakkerduom.blogspo...wagen.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Pzkpfw-e
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 21, 2010
Posts: 1202

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Pzkpfw-e
I wonder if the PzIV being restored in Norfolk is thus Crompton's too?

No it isn't, but I don't know who the owner is.


- Pzkpfw-e
As to why bury one, well they may have been abandonned due to damage or lack of fuel, then shoved by an allied bulldozer into a bomb hole, to help fill it? Like the Stuart dug up in France a few years ago.

That would be the most likely scenario I would say. Although it has lots of battle scars I don't think it got a devasting hit.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
vmmv1
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 75
Location: virginia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

The interior is correct for a Hetzer. might have been incorrectly stenciled. guns, muzzle brakes, cupolas and even turrets can be easily changed and should not be used as the only reference for the model of a particular model of tank.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:48 am
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Tobias Haudenschild forwarded me his observations on this tank. I am posting on his behalf:

According to MY knowledge, it has to be a Swiss G-13. Here are my arguments:

The gun as such seems to be a PAK 39. But the horizontal movement of the PAK 39 (in Hetzers) was achieved by a cardan shaft that is completely missing on this particular vehicle. Besides, all handles and mountings for the gun are identical to the G-13's arrangement.

The firing button (on picture 065) was a Swiss modification (in G-13s it was actually red).

The driver's instrument panel is the one used in G-13s. In the Hetzer the display for water temperature was located on the far left of the panel.

A clear identification could be achieved by checking wheter the vehicle has an escape hatch on the floor of the fighting compartment, as only Swiss G-13s had this hatch...

You were actually right that Swiss G-13s were marked both in German and French on the interior. For sure the interior markings shown in the pictures are not of Swiss origin. They might be an invention of the vehicle's owner.

Altogether I have to say that it is a very fine G-13 to Hetzer conversion that features a lot of details that makes it look like an original Hetzer.


Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/

The Vilseck Pzkpfw IV--Restoration(?) Wheatcroft now the tank stands in the IWM Duxford

Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
earlymb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

- Andreas
Hi all

The first restoration from the Crompton Jagdpanzer 38 in Germany
www.warbirds.de/conten...8t.Hetzer/
Andreas

This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic , but perhaps it is one of Wheatcrofts' vehicles?

It could very well be that G-13 interior pictures or manuals and even some parts were (incorrectly) used in or as a reference during the restoration, what would explain the presence of some G-13 parts/details. It does not have an escape hatch.

Greetz Wink

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Andreas
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 11, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Jagdpanzer 38(t) with G-13 markings???

Hello David

"This is not the Crompton Hetzer according to the Collection's chief mechanic "........but it looks very (very) similar!!


Andreas
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum