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M36 Tank Destroyer
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:32 pm
Post subject: M36 Tank Destroyer

Todays special is a look at the M36 TD that came to the Museums collection after being removed from a Bosnian (Serb) Weapon Storage site in 1999.

This vehicle was 'recovered' by 2/12 Cav, 1st Cav Div during the SFOR 5 rotation and was then shipped back to the United States. It actually spent a short period at Ft Hood Tx, and then was sent to Ft Knox KY, to join the Patton Museum vehicle collection.

Today%20I%20noticed%20that%20the%20Left%20side%20roadwheels%20are%20the%20older%20style%20'open-spoked'%20roadwheels,%20however%20they%20have%20been%20covered%20with%20misc%20welded%20pieces.

The Right side roadwheels are a miss match of the solid roadwheels

Cool
More to follow
Don
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:45 pm
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

The M36 TD has many obvious modifications that are common to Yugoslavian / Bosnian Service. Beside the headlight brackets there is also the T55 engine in the engine bay.

After climbing into the Radio Operator hatch, I noticed this:
Climbing%20over%20the%20tranmission,%20into%20the%20drivers%20seat,%20I%20found%20that%20the%20data%20plate%20was%20removed,%20and%20the%20hull%20stamped%20SN%20had%20been%20torch%20melted%20off.%20%20The%20first%20digit%20of%20the%20original%20SN%20appears%20to%20have%20been%20an%20'F',%20but%20no%20other%20numbers%20are%20present. As%20to%20answer%20the%20question%20of%20an%20SN,%20there%20is%20this:

On the right side of the front slope, beside the headlight bracket these stampings were found. I assume that these are Yugoslavian Army stamped SNs applied after receiving the vehicles. This is a bit of personal speculation, that I assume someone of greater knowledge can confirm or explain.

If there is any area of interest on this vehicle, I do have more 'boring' photos.

Enjoy,
Don
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:06 pm
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

- Dontos
.

As to answer the question of an SN, there is this:



On the right side of the front slope, beside the headlight bracket these stampings were found. I assume that these are Yugoslavian Army stamped SNs applied after receiving the vehicles. This is a bit of personal speculation, that I assume someone of greater knowledge can confirm or explain.

If there is any area of interest on this vehicle, I do have more 'boring' photos.

Enjoy,
Don

Nice pics as always, Don.

Joe DeMarco told me about 5 years ago that Red River Arsenal rebuilt some of the M36's and stamped the s/n in several places on the hull. The s/n's begin with "401". So, it looks like you found the s/n of this particular M36, 40177808 or 803.

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:37 pm
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

Chris

The stamped SN reads
N 127
40177808

Thanks for the onfirmation. There was no other SN stampings anywhere on the vehicle, that I could find, besides the above items.

Regards
Don
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:29 pm
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

For some reason I have that M36 as SN 484592?

Neil
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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:42 pm
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

- toadmanstankpictures
Nice pics as always, Don.

Joe DeMarco told me about 5 years ago that Red River Arsenal rebuilt some of the M36's and stamped the s/n in several places on the hull. The s/n's begin with "401". So, it looks like you found the s/n of this particular M36, 40177808 or 803.


well, I would say that 40177808 is rather the Registration Number than the Serial Number. At least the format corresponds.

Pierre-Olivier

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binder001
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:12 am
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

Trivia question - is there any way to tell if these ex-Yugoslavian vehices are M36s or M36B2s? With the changes in the engine and rear plate it seems impossible to tell but I thought I'd get other opinions.
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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:01 am
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

- the_shadock
- toadmanstankpictures
Nice pics as always, Don.

Joe DeMarco told me about 5 years ago that Red River Arsenal rebuilt some of the M36's and stamped the s/n in several places on the hull. The s/n's begin with "401". So, it looks like you found the s/n of this particular M36, 40177808 or 803.


well, I would say that 40177808 is rather the Registration Number than the Serial Number. At least the format corresponds.

Pierre-Olivier


I stand corrected. I went back through some of my old emails again and found that it would've been the registration number, not the serial. I don't know what the "N 127" is. Again, in reviewing some past emails with Joe DeMarco, he mentions that numbers like that maybe be a stamping for the individual piece of armor plate.

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:03 am
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

- binder001
Trivia question - is there any way to tell if these ex-Yugoslavian vehices are M36s or M36B2s? With the changes in the engine and rear plate it seems impossible to tell but I thought I'd get other opinions.


I would figure that you'd be able to tell by looking at the engine deck doors. Wider ones for M36's, narrower ones for B2's. Just a thought.

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the_shadock
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:06 am
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

- binder001
Trivia question - is there any way to tell if these ex-Yugoslavian vehices are M36s or M36B2s? With the changes in the engine and rear plate it seems impossible to tell but I thought I'd get other opinions.


I would say that the engine deck plates would be a clue..



these are apparently engine plates from an M36, and we shoud see M4A2 engine plates on M36B2s.

P-O

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:09 am
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

- the_shadock
- binder001
Trivia question - is there any way to tell if these ex-Yugoslavian vehices are M36s or M36B2s? With the changes in the engine and rear plate it seems impossible to tell but I thought I'd get other opinions.


I would say that the engine deck plates would be a clue..



these are apparently engine plates from an M36, and we shoud see M4A2 engine plates on M36B2s.

P-O

I can verify this one on the 14th as I'll be at the MVTF giving tours.

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Dontos
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:10 pm
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

I don't have any rear deck shots, but here is the engine access / extension on the M36 here.



Regards
Don
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:00 am
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

I wonder what the story of this vehicle is. It looks like they plugged a hole from a hit.

Whas there any damage visible on the inside?

Regards,
Lesley
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:10 am
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

- L.Delsing
I wonder what the story of this vehicle is. It looks like they plugged a hole from a hit.

Whas there any damage visible on the inside?

Regards,
Lesley


The splash mark & patch is how I realized I had seen this vehicle before. I was in Bosnia for SFOR 5 as Operations NCOIC of the 2/12 Cav TOC based at Camp Demi. Formerly located near Kladanj, near the ZOS. Our Operational area included two fairly large RS Weapon Storage Sites, one of which was where this particular vehicle was recovered in the summer of 1999. As I recall, the WSS was located near the town of Vlasnicia in the RS. I have a video tape filmed during the recovery of the M36, which plainly shows the same splash mark & patch, but unfortunately it has been packed away and I haven't been able to find it.

As for the specific cause of the splash, I don't know. There is no visible damage in the drivers compartment area. No impact/penetration marks in the interior. I assume the impact was a non-penetrating impact which appears to have been fired from an upper right angle, based on the spall marks.

Regards
Don
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:27 am
Post subject: Re: M36 Tank Destroyer

Here's the info from Armor magazine:

Was “hit by a large caliber HEAT round that passed through the upper section of the transmission housing, sliced through the cabling on the radio, and impacted on the hull side wall. The entry hole had been welded over with a patch. The tank destroyer's original gasoline engine had been removed and replaced with a Soviet T-55 power plant because of the lack of spare parts,” according to “Two WWII Tank Destroyers Saved from the Balkan Wars Are Returning to U.S. Museums,” Armor, January-February 2000, 15.
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